ok so after a debate on the use of U.V with frogs, especialy red eyes, i have been researching the matter online and i am considering a little project to see for my self if it realy does make any difference.

the plan would be to remove the U.V tube from my red eyes and see if there appear to be any changes in there eating, colouration, general behaviour, sleeping areas/paterns and there general overall progress over the period of 2-4 weeks. however if there appear to be any health issues what so ever i will replace the U.V tube straight away.

i would keep the viv, feeding paterns, dusting system, water source temprature and humidity all the same so that the only thing different would be that the only light avaliable would be the daylight that enters my room (dont worry none is direct on the vivs) and NO U.V.

before i go ahead with this i wanted your guys input as to any issues that you think could effect the frogs, and if you think that they will suffer as a result of the U.V being removed.

please remember before any one Burns me for this, that this is still only an idea and i have not done anything as yet.

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im quite interested to know how this turn out

let us all know how it goes

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1 Fire Salamander (S.S. Bernardezi) (Chalimander)
3 Chinese Fire Belly Newts (Hoysin Herbert Minute)
4 Mandarin Salamander (Morphing) (The Fantastic
1 Golden Apple Snails (George) (RIP Sharky)
4 West African Land Snails (Limicoloria Flammea)
4 Golden Land Snails (No Names As Of Yet)

Have you read the paper on this by Douglas Sheriff? Might be worth a read if not

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I'd be really interested in this experiment too! I don't use a U.V light at the minute as I was told it wasn't essential, but if you find out things are better with a U.V then I'll be buying one pronto!

Sorry to go off topic but I was wondering what plants you use in your RETF viv?

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Dan im not sure if i have read the paper or not to be honest, any chance of a link?

any ways i am going to give it another day or so to let some more opinions and views regarding any health matters come in, and providing there are is going to be no risk to any of my frogs i will be giving it the go ahead.

i will start a new thread (providing all goes to plan) and will keep it updated with pictures and notes on how things are going so that any one that wishes to follow my little experiement can, and maybe notice any changes that i miss.

as for the plants....

at the moment they are all fake in the viv, but a new viv is under construction and will be using 100% live plants in there. check out this link for a good site to get them from

http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/

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The only way to do this properly would be to have at least 2 vivs one with uv one without, kept identically in all other ways. Also I think you would have to do it over a longer period than a few weeks. Could be interesting to see how they react the first few days, take note if they change sleeping locations, times they sleep and if they eat more or less.

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2.1.0 Red Eyed Tree Frogs
0.1.0 Dendrobates azureus
0.0.1 Salmon Pink Birdeater
1. Anemone Reef aquarium
1.2.0 Asian giant Mantis
1.1.0. Budgies
1.0.0 Cat
0.1.0 Yemen Chameleon

had thought this, and the 2-4 weeks could go on longer if there seem to be no ill effects.

they have been under U.V since i have had them so i am fully aware of there sleeping patterns/places, food intake and general behaviour so i personaly would notice any changes to them. also doing it with my set up gives less variables as there can be differences between 2 vivs and it will be happening with the same frogs not two different ones.

i am not trying to launch a major project, just a simple experiemnt to see for myself (and anyone that is interested) if U.V is as important as i have been led to believe.

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i say go for it, i think absolutley no harm will come of it, only your leckie bill will be cheaper!

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3 red eye tree frogs
1 whites tree frogs
1 yemen chameleon
2 water dragons
1 marbled newt
1 mantis
3 cats
2 rabbits
2 dogs
2 cold water aquarium
1 tropical aquarium

Sorry, no link.
The paper i saw was printed off from somewhere though so i presume it must be on some site somewhere.

IIRC, the long and short of it was that they can survive as adults just fine without. However, when bred the resulting offspring all died off. The conclusion was that they are more dependant on D3 as youngsters. It was solved by providing high concentrations of UV light for defined periods (can't remember what they were)

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To be honest I think it will be a waste of your time.
You wont make any worthwhile observations in this length of time or any reliable observations because the methods have no scientific grounding.

I understand that you say you just want to do a little observational experiment for yourself, but you just wont have results you could honestly trust to proove or disproove anything.

Not sure if Douglas' paper is actually available online, but you can always email people who've published a paper you are interested in and askthem nicely for a copy, usually they'll happily print you one and post it or email you a PDF.

For some progressive and up to date UV information, bookmark this page
UV Lighting for Reptiles: About Us


It is fact that amphibians need vitamin D3 as much as anything else, the issue at hand is how it is provided, either by dietry means (nutrobal, but how much, how often, how do we know???) by provision of full spectrum lighting (allowing animals to regulate their own needs) or both!?

Unfortunately most people are happy to let their animals get by with just enough D3 from dietry suppliments (then you've got those who dont and wonder why their frog have rubber jaw...) When a suitably chosen full spectrum lighting could provide your pet with better health.

Anyway, the long and short is, good inspiration to get something done but dont waste your time (or leave your poor froggies in the dark!) when you could spend that time reading (and trying to decipher...) all of the information that is available.

Also try the UVB Meter Owners yahoo group
Lotte***

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http://www.durrellwildlife.org/
G. colubrinus - Kenyan Sand Boa (Norbert),
P. guttatus - Cornsnake (Stanley!),
P. vitticeps - Crawley x Psycho O.G.G/Blood/Sandfire Bearded Dragon (Rhubarb),
P. paradoxa - Ghost Mantid (Loki),
H. membranacea - Giant Asian Mantid (Thor),
E. tiaratum - Macleay's Spectres,
Asceles sp. - Thai Phasmid,
10Gal aquarium;
Y. sidthimunki - Pygmy Botias,
D. choprai - Glowlight Danios,
N. denticulata - Cherry Shrimps,
30Gal aquarium;
T. nigroviridis - Green Spotted Puffer (Edgar),
30gal aquarium;
C. trilineatus - Trilined Corys,
P. axelrodi - Cardinal Tetras,