I see more and more people trading reptiles that they have not bred or kept long term. There are a number of adverts especially that are trading in imports which would require a PSL and obviously are trading for profit.

My question is do these people know they require a PSL? do any of you declare sales for tax? also if you claim benefits do you declare your earnings to the state?

I have had a few PMs reference particular adverts in the past asking these questions which I can answer to an extent on PSL but not tax. So it would be good to get peoples views especially those who have knowledge of what you can legally trade without a PSL and how much if tax is payable you can earn.

My understanding is this does not affect breeders or long term owners of reps they sell.

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RFUK simply the best Reptile Forum around

I have spoken at length on this with numerous organisations, although I am not by any means an authority, and may on points be wrong - I would always recommend that any person phones the local council, and HM Revenue & Customs to verify - note you don't have to leave your name or be specific, they can't chase you down just because you phoned to "enquire" about things.

Pet Shop License - whilst some terms, conditions and fees may vary from council to council, the basic premise is the same. If you are selling animals in the course of a business (making a profit), then you require a license.

It should be noted that no invertebrates are classed as pets - thus, you can trade livefood - but also all invertebrates such as tarantulas, from a business, as a business, with no PSL.

This is not limited to business dwellings, if you trade from home, you still require a pet shop license from your home.

The exception to this rule is if you are transporting reptiles on behalf of others. I believe the limit is 48 hours for transporting / holding reptiles at a facility mid transport, from point A (which would hold the license) to point B (customer). This has allowed some importers to hold animals for a few days at their dwelling before delivery to the end point as they are merely transporting reptiles. The animals must not be bought, kept, and then sold. If you are buying in yourself, and then selling them on once in the country, this is not transporting. This is tricky legislation right here, and I would urge anyone trying to use this loophole to confirm it with the CORRECT authorities. This loophole will NOT exempt people from tax status, this is only in the case of a PSL.

The only person who can tell you if you need a PSL in your county is your local county council licensing department. Not DEFRA, not the RSPCA, not the Taxman. The licenses are issued solely by the council and you will be prosecuted by the county council if you are found to be trading without one.

Defining trading is a tough one. In general, if you make a profit, if you buy to sell, if you buy with the intent to sell, you are a "trader". If you happen to buy a corn snake and you intended to keep it, but you get bored of it, you are not trading. You are selling on your pet that you don't want anymore.

If you see a good collection for sale for £500 and think, if I buy that, I can sell it on for £750 and make a bit of profit - you are a trader. You have turned those animals into a business venture, you need a PSL.

Check before you do ANYTHING. Get it in writing. Do not accept a verbal phone call if you intend to trade under any exemption (such as importing / transporting) after the phone call, write a letter, and ask for a written response. This will cover you in the future. Saying "someone told me on the phone it was okay" will not stand up in court. Having a written letter of permission, will.

The disqualification has always in my experience, been permanent.

Some things to note are that to apply for a PSL you must be over 18 and must not hold any criminal convinctions. If you have been disqualified from keeping a PSL in a different county you must declare this on the application and it may affect it, but this is decided county to county. Any criminal convictions UK wide must be declared, and will result in the application being turned down.

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

Who does not need a PSL?

As above, if you are transporting reptiles in a commercial venture you may usually keep them at your premises for up to 48 hours without a PSL.

Breeders are exempt from the PSL on the assumption that they are not turning a profit or are breaking even.

Breeders should keep detailed records of earnings & expenditure in case they ever get called up either by the council, or the tax man - I know people who have had private ventures at home who have been called by both. Proving you are not a business venture should be relatively simple with a basic excel sheet of accounts.


Outgoings & Investment - Include a list of the following:

• Housing Costs
• Substrate Costs (often forgotten!)
• Water Bill (based on usage, show how many L of water you use per week approx)
• Electricity (based on usage, add up the wattage of your reptile related appliances and how much this costs per week)
• Feeding costs
• Anything else that costs money - replacing light bulbs, buying a new water bowl / hide, vet bills. Keep receipts!!

Investment can include new expanded housing, new snakes to add to the collection, etc.

Then you keep a list of your profit - how much you sold things for.

99.9% of breeders will find, when they add up the costs, and the profit, they are left with quite a significant minus figure. If you are not making money, you are unlikely to have to pay any taxes, or require a PSL, but do please check this with your local council and HM Revenue & Customs if you are worried!

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

My local council told me that to buy and sell reptiles full stop even if you are just importing them and then sending them straight out requires a PSL.

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Income Tax, in my own words.

The HM Revenue & Customs website is HM Revenue & Customs: Home Page

In my experiences I have found these people extremely happy to help with questions and queries. They would rather people ask, and find out for sure what needs to be done, than people do it wrong, and the taxman have to hunt you down. Don't ever feel you are wasting their time by calling and clarifying a question - it's always better to do it right. All quotes are taken from their website.

Now, from that list, taxable income from selling reptiles comes under self employment typically speaking. If you start a business selling reptiles, you declare yourself self employed. Just because you are employed elsewhere during the day, does not mean you are not self employed part time (breeding reptiles).

But here's the important bit...

But then it gets tricky. This INCLUDES your employment. So, if you are employed, and you earn £10k a year with your full time job... ALL your profit from self employment is taxable over that, as your total income is combined. If you are unemployed, or employed part time or on a low wage that is less than this, you can add any reptile profit to this, and it is not taxable.

If you are working for a company, the income tax is automatically deducted from your payslip, called "PAYE", and you usually never have to do any additional forms or send out cheques etc. it's paid before you receive your wages.

If you're self employed, you usually have to fill in a Self Assessment form - which can be done online. They then assess you, and they consider all your information, and send you in the post a letter, explaining your tax band and how much you owe them.

It's done every April, it's not that hard to fill in, and I can say with certainty that the majority of reptile breeders when filling in this form will receive a letter back saying you don't owe us any money. But it's useful to have that letter, if the tax man comes knocking, or if people start asking questions about the legitimatacy of your business side, you can always show this letter which proves you have kept to your side of the law.

And the HM website says...

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

If you are importing them yourself, yes. If say "Joe Bloggs" in the USA was selling to customers in the UK, and you agreed to collect them from the airport, and deliver them, then you would not be selling them, Joe Bloggs would be. You are just transporting. But you would not be taking the money for them. Joe Bloggs would be paying you to transport & distribute his reptiles. But you would not be making a profit on the PRICE of each individual reptile. You would be employed by Joe Bloggs.

He might pay you comission on sales, he might pay you a set fee, but at the end of the day, they would not be your reptiles to sell, and you could only keep and transport them for a very limited amount of time. (Note, VAT would still need to be paid)

These would never be your reptiles, they would always remain the property of Mr Joe Bloggs, USA. This allows the transport exemption.

If you buy them in yourself to import, then yes, they do not belong to Joe Bloggs, YOU paid him for those reptiles, they are your property, and you are selling them on. You need a PSL.

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

VAT - Value Added Tax

The other thing bandied about often is do I need to pay VAT?

When you buy something already in the UK, the VAT is already paid for. The seller paid that VAT when they purchased the item. When reptile shops buy goods in from wholesalers, they pay VAT. VAT registered businesses then claim this VAT back, but must pay VAT on their sales.

Ie. Joe Bloggs is now in the UK. He buys a reptile from Reptile Goods UK. This costs £50 + VAT. The cost of VAT is 17.5%. He pays Reptile Goods UK an extra £8.75 and receives a VAT receipt. He sells this item at £117.50. This £117.50 is to a consumer. It must include the VAT, you do not charge VAT to a consumer, only to other businesses, so businesses price their items to include VAT. The consumer does not usually receive a VAT receipt. Of this £117.50 - the VAT (£17.50) must be paid to the tax man when you declare your VAT returns. However, the tax man will pay you the VAT you paid on purchases (£8.75) back. Therefore, the total VAT business owes on this purchase is £8.75. He must do this on every single item that is taxable (there are exemptions, such as frozen food).

But if you are not VAT registered, you cannot claim the VAT on purchases back, but neither do you have to pay VAT on sales. This will be what applies to 99.9% of reptile keepers without a large shop.

Note that this is NOT PROFIT. This is turnover. If you have sold reptiles to the tune of £67k and made £1k profit because of expenses, you must register! This is quite a high figure by most hobbyists standards and therefore is unlikely to be relevant. If you are not receiving turnover to that then you do not have to pay VAT on goods already in the country that you sell.

But what about importing?

If you import from the USA for example, you must pay VAT. This will be payable to customs when you pick up the goods at the airport. I believe the limit is around £37 for what you can receive from outside the EU as a tax free gift. If it is more than this, you pay VAT - regardless of whether you are a business or not. A VAT registered business can however, claim this VAT back (but also has to pay VAT when they sell the goods).

I have heard people say that you do not pay VAT on items you bring over from the EU. This is not my awareness, although I would urge anyone to confirm this with HM Revenue. Note, that according to the HM website, if you are bringing more than £67k worth of goods into the country, you may have to register for VAT. This may apply to some people bringing animals back from Hamm in very large numbers!

If the EU supplier provides you with a receipt saying these goods have been taxed, you can get a refund on your acquisition tax, but you will still be required to pay the tax, then apply for a refund.

It is my understanding that if you are bringing pets in the EU into the country that you have purchased in the EU, as PETS, you are not taxable. Therefore, if you are going to Hamm for example and purchasing reptiles FOR YOUR COLLECTION then you can ignore all of the above. If you are bringing reptiles into the UK as part of a business please take heed and confirm with HM Revenue & Customs and the seller as to whether the VAT had been paid or not. This will depend on the country it is coming from!

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

Well we all know who this is aimed at, why dont the mods just gang up on the certain person who they are bitching about again, im not being funny here and will probs get told off again for this but some of the mods on here can bitch and whine about people and shit stir all the time, get a grip some of you mods! But hey on here stick someones name in green and the power goes straight to thier heads!
No wonder a hell of a lot of people on here are sick to death of the shit that these few people get away with!

Quick go round and hang people when all they are doing is doing favours for people.
JESUS CHRIST SOME PEOPLE TRY AND DO OTHERS FAVOURS ON HERE AND ALL THEY GET IS CRAP AND STUPID THREADS AIMED AT THEM!

In this case, so everyone who makes a single penny selling any reptiles needs a PSL? If so the tax man is going to have fun going round to see ALL BREEDERS on here!

I recon if you are importing reptiles and advertising them on for sale, then you will need to legally be at least declaring your earnings. Because it is a business venture however small, but for all I know all these people might be and might have a PSL I dont know otherwise so im not gonna comment.

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What are you on about mate? People are always asking us about PSL and taxes etc so Athraven has made a good few posts explaining it all. Is that sh*t stirring or being helpful? It gets boring answering the same questions all the time but now we can refer them to this thread.

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