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09-04-2009, 09:18 PM
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Unhappy with Craig Ford Python Man purchases?
I'm just wondering if there are other people out there who have bought from Craig Ford Python Man on the classifieds, and if other folks have had some problems with misrepresentation of animals they've bought.
We first contacted him 20th of March regarding a 300-gram female Fire royal he was advertising here: Female Fire Royal Python £450 i can deliver anywhere I said I would like to see a photo of the snake (as per his request on the thread that PMs be sent to ask for pictures) - and that I had a male I was looking to pair up. He very promptly got back to me to say that he'd sold the animal in question, but that he had another available female fire he was considering selling. At that point I asked what size she was; again, another very quick response saying that she was bigger than the female fire listed (i.e. over 300 grams) although a slightly pickier feeder. He sent me over some photographs, including this one:  I said I did indeed like the animal. We agreed on a price of £400 for her - which I agreed on the basis of the weight description, although he did mention at that point that she weighed "about 250 grams but I don't have any scales". I suppose alarm bells should have been ringing at this point because he'd described her as *bigger* than the 300-gram female he'd listed on the forum. I also queried how much it would cost for petrol to have her delivered to me - and he stated she would be couriered by private courier at a cost of £40. I asked if an evening delivery would be possible, since that would avoid having a delivery at work; I also asked if I could send payment via Paypal. I was asked if I could send the PayPal payment to a friend of his, Callum, to whom he owed money for car tax/insurance; he didn't have his own paypal account. He also asked if I could send it over as a "gift" to avoid the paypal charges. (I also should have heard the alarm bells here! Granted, I know it's something used as a scam, so I decided to send the money INCLUDING the 3.4% for paypal fees, but sent it as "for goods" instead). I offered £150 as a deposit to hold her, and on being told that the courier would be making a run on the 3rd of April and could deliver to me after 7PM I asked if I could send the remainder on the 2nd of April. He asked if I could send the payment before April. I agreed to send the remainder the following Friday (March the 27th); I also asked if he was selling anything else I might be interested in. There was one that sounded quite nice - a female yellowbelly, approximately 500 grams, that he was asking £400 for. I got a photo of her too:  And, being happy with what I was looking at, I asked what sort of a deal he might be willing to do on both of them; we agreed on £820 delivered for the two of them. On the 23rd, Craig asked when I'd be sending the remainder of the balance, and I reminded him that we'd agreed I would pay it on Friday the 27th. On the 27th he asked me to confirm my address and that the payment was on the way. I sent over £692 (to include the fees) and requested confirmation that the two royals would *definitely* be delivered on Friday the 3rd of April after 6:30PM. At that point I was told yes, he'd try to get them there for that date although it could be earlier. I reiterated that the *time* was critical - that if it was going to be between 9 and 5, they'd have to be delivered to my work address, and that if it was after half six, it would be best at my home address. On the 29th Craig left me a message asking me to call him on his mobile number. My partner called, and it turned out that unfortunately the courier Craig had planned to use was "fully booked up" when he phoned to book the Friday-3rd-April delivery. He said he'd found another courier who could pick up on Saturday morning and deliver to us on Saturday afternoon; we agreed to that because there really wasn't much else we could do. We hadn't arranged the courier. This was an inconvenience, because we'd previously arranged to collect a trio of ackies on Saturday, but that seller kindly agreed to hold onto them for us a bit longer. So Saturday the 4th swings around, and I messaged Craig at half nine in the morning to ask if the snakes had been collected yet or whether he had an estimated time of arrival for us. No response at all; I figured they'd probably been collected and he'd gone out. Now, he's about two to two and a half hours' drive away from us; accounting for traffic and other deliveries I figured four hours was probably a reasonable time to wait. When the snakes hadn't arrived by 1PM I tried calling Craig on the mobile number we had; no response. I tried texting with the same message I'd sent on the forum. At 2 I finally get the response that Craig is waiting on an e-mail confirming when the snakes would be collected from him. A bit of a far cry from the "being picked up Saturday morning" we'd been told over the phone. He seemed apologetic enough, but when I requested contact details for the couriers so I could try coordinating with them directly, he just replied with "I've been e-mailing the guy, are you in Monday or Tuesday?" I was a bit short, really, when I said "not unless the delivery's after 7. I'm at work all week." I replied again immediately afterwards asking if he could give me the courier's e-mail address so I could try to contact him myself. No reply. Because there was no reply, I posted this thread: Have you been contacted to make a delivery to Huddersfield today? I was contacted very quickly afterwards by someone who was very helpful - he confirmed that the delivery had been booked with him on Friday - but not that the delivery was going to take place on Saturday. I was notified that he was waiting for enough people to confirm to make the run feasable for them, and that a date had not yet been decided. I also made it very clear to him that Craig had told me "delivery on Saturday the 4th" and that I wasn't blaming him for the seller's lack of communication. I contacted Craig again, letting him know that the courier had been in touch, that there had never been a confirmed Saturday delivery date or indeed any confirmed delivery date, and that I didn't appreciate having been told there was - not to mention losing an entire day and having to rearrange the collection of the ackies. At that point, I told Craig I needed a definite date of delivery confirmed, with the delivery confirmed for an evening after 7PM because I could not reschedule work or necessary trips to wait in, and that I needed to have an arrangement that would arrive when I was able to take delivery, not when it was convenient for him to have them delivered. I was probably a bit rude. I wanted at the time to say "provide me with a definite date or I would like a full refund." I wish I had - but I was looking forward to having my female fire to someday pair with my male, and a female yellowbelly that would be only 200 grams behind my male in terms of growth. He got back to me to say "they'll be delivered sometime this week and that they'll probably call you before they get there so you can confirm which address they should go to" - which wasn't enough for me. I asked for a specific date and time, because "will probably call" had a 50% chance of taking the snakes to somewhere I wasn't. I also made it clear that I would have to clear taking a delivery like that at work with my employer as I know two of my coworkers are snake phobics. They're pretty good about "Ssthisto's got another weird box" but I didn't want to push my luck when I unpacked them to check them over. I was finally given "Wednesday during the day" so I confirmed with work that it would be OK. The courier contacted me on the 7th to say they could get to my home address as early as 7AM. There was some confusion; I confirmed it was supposed to be during the day, while I was at work, and that if they couldn't guarantee the delivery would be at my home *before* 7:30 AM I needed it to be after 9AM at the work address. They agreed it could be done before half seven and I specified that I would be awake from six if earlier was better. The courier provided me with both his number and the specific driver's number at that point. Wednesday morning started a bit earlier than I expected - there was a knock at the door at 5:12AM. The couriers had arrived - and were very gracious when I said "Can I just open this up and check the animals first?" I assume that Craig packed the polybox; the two royals were in medium-sized clip lid storage boxes with no padding, insulation or anything to prevent the boxes from sliding around in transit. When I opened the box, the first words out of my mouth were "Those are a lot smaller than I expected." Both animals were quite clearly the animals I had seen photos of - but they were definitely not the 250+ or 500 grams I was told I was getting. I asked the driver if he would mind staying while we took photos of the animals on our digital scales to confirm what they weighed - and said that we'd been told they were 250+ gram animals. The female fire that was supposed to be "about 250 grams" weighed 126 grams - we took this photo in the presence of the courier.  The female yellowbelly was worse - she was supposed to have been approximately 500 grams, remember - and the photo below, again taken while the courier was here, shows she weighs 194 grams.  I sent Craig a message almost immediately - at half 6 in the morning - telling him I was disappointed in the weights of the animals even though the morph and gender appeared correct - and that I wanted to discuss with him a partial refund based on the animals we received being significantly smaller than described. If we had known the yellowbelly was less than 40% the weight she'd been advertised as, we would not have bought her at all. I'd have just waited for a 2009 female to come up and paid something close to half as much. I'm not at all happy with the animal that I have received as the price I agreed to was based on a grossly misrepresented weight and the difference will probably set my ivory breeding group back a full breeding season. The female fire is beautiful in the flesh, but she must have been a much pickier feeder than we were told, if she's actually a 2008 animal, to be the size she is. As the fire female is so small, I can't be sure her colour will stay what it is now, either - my male fire has darkened significantly as he's grown from 75 grams to 300+ grams. I have captive-farmed 2008 animals that refuse two out of every three feeds and they weigh 40+ grams more than either of them. I know that Craig has logged in since I sent him the message asking to discuss a partial refund, but he has not gotten back in touch. He has now had all of yesterday and all of today to reply to my grievances and has apparently chosen not to do so. I'm not sure what to do at this point.
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- Ssthisto "My bum has been a bum for a very long time, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to what it says." - Terry Pratchett, Fifth Elephant  Member 1603 | Buyer Beware .... Last edited by Ssthisto; 09-04-2009 at 09:25 PM.. 
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09-04-2009, 09:29 PM
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How frustrating.
I can only assume that he weighed them after they had both eaten several rat weaners each? I agree, the difference between a 500g and a 200g snake is quite alot and at that age can put you back more than 6 months with breeding plans. I would certainly ask for a partial or full refund on the animals especially if they cannot fit into your breeding plans now. He has missold them but it does seem to be something that happens quite alot. People seem to be vague about weights hoping to make a better price. I would go and see him in person but I realise you may not be able to want to do that for whatever reason.
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Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time. Cornsnakes for sale - Click here   
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09-04-2009, 09:32 PM
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well that was a read and a half,i think your totally in your rights to ask for payment reduction.what has been sold is not what it should be,ok morph and sex aside .
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 1 green iguana-stig 1 red iguana 1 yemen chameleon 1 100% het albino boa 1 staffy- k-dee 1 dogue de bourdeaux-willow http://boastu.bebo.com
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09-04-2009, 09:39 PM
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what a joke, all that hassle and then you didnt even get what you paid for! big price reduction in order for the hassle and weight difference.
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09-04-2009, 09:48 PM
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You have definately been misled in your purchase, and i think you are quite right to expect a refund. Personally if i was only 2.30 hours away i would have went to collect so i could see what im buying before parting with the money, but this may not have been possible.
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09-04-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
__________________
- Ssthisto "My bum has been a bum for a very long time, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to what it says." - Terry Pratchett, Fifth Elephant Member 1603 | Buyer Beware ....
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09-04-2009, 10:12 PM
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i would ask for a prtial refund, you paid for larger snakes than he had to sell you, your still withen your time to open a paypal dispute so thats the way i would go, yep it may not be his account but thats his problem to sort it out not yours
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************************ member number 2631 value your friends....dont take them for granted
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09-04-2009, 10:13 PM
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he's about two to two and a half hours' drive away from us.
I understand that if you dont drive it makes things a bit more expensive to get there and back, but that would have been the only money paid out at the time. Once you had seen the snakes were not as advertised you could haggle a reasonable price or just not bought them if they were not what you needed. As it is now you have paid out alot more money which you may not get a refund on and the snakes are not what you require for your breeding prog. Im not having a go mate, i sympathise with you because this type of thing should not happen if people who are in the same hobby were honest with each other. I hope he is decent enough to refund you some of your money and it has a happy ending
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09-04-2009, 10:14 PM
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You definately can say you have been mis sold or mis lead in your purchase. Good job you sent the paypal as goods not gift. Firstly hound the guy until you get a response of some kind. If you dont like the offer or no offer is made then you can still open a dispute through paypal for goods not as discribed. Paste in all the details from your communications asking for the money to be sent to this particular account so as that is where the money has gone that is where it should come back from. If this account does truly belong to a friend he will then once again owe his friend. As in paypals eyes you have actually done the deal with the person owning the paypal account they dont really care about third parties as such. Remember to state what you think is a fair refund and see how you get on.
I was seriously considering purchasing the fire royal he had available that he needed to be rid of asap. So glad another snake came up that I loved more, seems like this guy is a lot more hassle than he is worth. Hope you get some of your money back soon.
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Oakelm Exotics Keeper and hobby breeder of: -Royal Pythons -Kenyan Sand Boas -Cornsnakes -Childrens Pythons www.oakelm.co.uk oakelm@sky.com
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09-04-2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
 If we could drive or had any access to a car, we would have gone to collect and wouldn't have needed a courier.Quote:
Quote:
__________________
- Ssthisto "My bum has been a bum for a very long time, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to what it says." - Terry Pratchett, Fifth Elephant Member 1603 | Buyer Beware ....
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