LOL it's not all 'underground and secretive' but breeders who are trying to improve the breed rather than churn them out for money are very careful who they sell to and who they allow into their homes to see them.

That view is taken by people who are a bit 'sour grapes' - the people who don't like the fact that breeders won't just hand out each others details willy-nilly to them ! I have constant e-mails from people asking me if I can give them details of breeders, but I never do, I will take their details and pass them on to the breeder for them to contact if they wish.

Dont know what rat breeders you've come across, all I ask is for people to fill in a brief questionaire proving they know about rat care and will give their name, address, phone number, and sign a non-breeding contract (unless otherwise agreed) which states they'll give them adequate housing and health care.

But then, if I really wanted a pet, giving vets references wouldn't be a problem for me. Not sure why that, or signing a contract, would be a problem for anyone, if they were responsible people and really wanted the pet, they wouldn't mind.

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Lisa and co.
Bohemian Rats

I breed skinnies (I had two lovely carriers from Zoe quite a while ago) and I am constantly getting people contacting me asking me for them but I haven't had many babies and I have only actually sold one of them - a skinny boar because at the time I had a couple of boars and didn't really have room for him.

I have just had a litter born over a week ago, 2 skinnies, 2 lakelands and 1 carrier and the likelihood is I will keep all of them (although I haven't warned my hubby yet!!!).

Some people in the cavy fancy love them, others don't. It's all personal choice the same as with any breed. I personally wouldn't want a guinea pig shed full of self blacks or self whites - to me looking in the cages and seeing the same thing staring out at me would be boring.

My hubby and I have different breeds for that reason - including the skinnies.

i really cant understand all this contract stuff with rats.
surely if you have any qualms about the person you`re homing a baby to, then you shouldnt be letting one go there if you think its going to be misstreated in any way?


this gorgeous girlie has now moved in with me, she`s very tame and cheeky and loves to be held.

will be bonding her with a scruffy hairy baby tomorrow, so she has a furry friend to cuddle.

And if you think of the other perspective, if someone refused to sign a contract that would be a huge flashing "uhoh" sign. My contract only says that they are not to be bred from, they are to be given good food, housing and vet care when needed, and must be returned to me if they need to rehome them. It also states that they need to contact me if they move, and that I will contact them for regular (6 monthlyish) updates on their health and temperament. Without this co-operation I cant make suitable breeding plans, I could be breeding from lines that have naff temperament or health problems I didnt know about.

My contract is nothing more than a reminder of the new owners duties - if they dont agree with it, there's plenty of breeders out there who dont care as much!

I would be more concerned about someone who refused to sign such a contract, and wonder what they were hiding...

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Lisa and co.
Bohemian Rats

With contracts though, can you actually make the new owner actually adhere to them? I.e if it states in the contract that the animal is not to be bred from or must go back to you if circumstances change, can this be ignored? I was always under the impression that as soon as money has changed hands then the owner can do as they wish as the animal is now their 'possession'. Is this not right? Not picking, just a question from someone who's never had to fill one in before.

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I have realised that men are like pumpkins... All the good ones are gay or taken. And the ones left over seem to have had everything scraped out of their heads with a spoon.....

Theoretically, it's probably not legally binding, but as I said, my contract is more a reminder/agreement of what I expect from them in return for the privilege of being chosen as a new home for my rats. If they dont stick to their side of the agreement, I can show that owner that they signed it and therefore were ok with the principles when they signed it. If they are not willing to sign the agreement, legally binding or not, they have other options - pet shop rats, less responsible breeders, or doing without! If they want one of mine, they have to stick to that, if they cant or refuse to - they dont get them. It's not much to ask - is it - that if they want to breed they have to ask before I choose which rats they're getting (as not every rat is breeding quality) or check with me that they are ok to breed from - so that I can keep track of my lines, and that they should keep them clean and safe in a good sized cage, with a good diet, and take them to the vets when they're sick? Is any of that unreasonable?

I've found that the kind of homes I'd want to have my rats are more than happy to sign an agreement. I've only ever had one pair of rats returned, but thanks to the contract - they were returned to me. Without that contract, the people could have rehomed them anywhere.

Edited to add: as I keep in regular touch with my owners, and consider many of them friends, I have never encountered anyone who wouldn't come to me first if they wanted to rehome them. If I found out my rats had gone to someone else without my permission, there would be nothing I could do, but I'd make damn sure they'd not get rats off me again - or anyone else I knew!

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Lisa and co.
Bohemian Rats

So it's not binding? That's what i wondered. Cos it's easy enough to lie i suppose. For example if i really wanted a rat from you, all i'd have to do is smile, promise to care for it, not breed and bring back if i had to rehome, put my name on a bit of paper, give you some cash then bugger off. Once home, i can change my mind. Breed. Rehome etc.
When someone wants something so much they'll happily sign i suppose.
god i'm glad i don't breed anything. I'd struggle to do it i think.
Have you had many people refuse to sign? Or do many owners lose touch? I'm in touch with both birds breeders. But not the dogs. Just lose touch i suppose.
Do you think that it seperates the undesirables out dramatically?
(Sorry many questions i know. just genuinely interested).

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I have realised that men are like pumpkins... All the good ones are gay or taken. And the ones left over seem to have had everything scraped out of their heads with a spoon.....