No one gets shunned over their opinion!

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But DEFRA have nothing to do with DWA licencing!! In addition, there is very little knowledge within DEFRA of dealing with exotics. Birds of prey, great! But forget anything else.

I do fully agree, though, that the entire DWA system is flawed.

DEFRA don't issue the license but they are undertaking a review of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act.

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*** Sugar Lumps: UK Sugar Glider Forum ***


*** New shop opening soon in Dunstable - WRIGGLIES ***

The pictures I promised.

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1.1 Red Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobras
1.1 Blue Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobras
2.3 White Lipped Vipers
1.1 Black Pakistan Cobras
1.1 Black and white Spitting Cobras
0.1 Puff Adder
1.1 gaboon Vipers
1.0 Mangrove snake
0.1 Formosa Cobra
1.1 osage copperhead
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It's interesting, I personally would never condone free handling of venemous, but people have to take their own decisions, and perhaps if you were in the UK with the potential repurcusions for the entire hobby if you died from a DWA animal, you would think differently. The risks here are on a much bigger scale, it doesn't take much negative press to affect the whole hobby.

I get dozens of questions asked a week about "is this snake venemous?! is that one?" etc. etc. (usually pointing at corn snakes in my shop), and I dutifully explain that I dont, can't, and wont sell venemous, and talk about the DWA and try to make it sound as complicated as possible so they don't even think about it. In the UK all it would take is one keeper to get a fatal bite that's found out about and publicised and it could affect the business of every reptile shop, the reputation of every reptile keeper out there. Obviously in the USA it is a bit different I suppose.

Someone earlier in the thread said "snakes can't be tamed", which is obviously a silly thing to say, as most of us know when working with snakes most can, if not be tamed, be calmed, or come to adjust to humans and contact, to lose their fear, and thus some aggression. So I think that the premise that this study could potentially show whether this species of snake can lose it's fear and thus be more handleable, is a valid one.

I do think for it to be worth the risk of your life, perhaps some more scientific and specific documentation would have been good, and data published in a journal, magazine, or somewhere, although even just posting it here, and on other forums, perhaps someone will read the replies and think wow, i didn't know free handling was that bad... and it will put them off?

I also think 5 months is too short a time, even a year, I think would be a short period of time to come to a full conclusion, of course, just my opinion It is interesting though, I would have expected, at least the CB younger snakes, to lose some of their fear and adjust more to becoming handleable.

So, although I agree with the potential premise of such a study, I don't really agree with the method or think it's worth the risk. I do think it's an interesting concept, but so hard to prove and record data to make it scientific.

Kudos to you for sharing the information though, especially knowing what responses you were likely to get!

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

I feel 5 months was long enough considering you can take a WC Reticulated python or other naturally aggressive non venomous species and calm them in a few months. These guys are not overly aggressive but the handling made no difference in their temperament what so ever. I figured it wouldn't but tried none the less leaving the possibility open.

Basically with 5 months in and no change considering the dangers it just wasn't worth it. I got the little Formosa right out of the egg more or less and handled it from day one and it acts just like the rest. So continuing the project seemed pointless.

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1.1 Red Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobras
1.1 Blue Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobras
2.3 White Lipped Vipers
1.1 Black Pakistan Cobras
1.1 Black and white Spitting Cobras
0.1 Puff Adder
1.1 gaboon Vipers
1.0 Mangrove snake
0.1 Formosa Cobra
1.1 osage copperhead
www.exoticanimalforums.com
www.myspace.com/eparr_1
www.eaternPareptilerescue.org

sorry to reiterate but if you felt the need to do this research then you should have collected accurate and detailed information. it hasnt been published, or even layed out in an ordered fashion, merely noted down on a forum. i think this is interesting research, but perhaps could have been conducted diffeantly, ore accurately, and with more factors taken in aco****. most importantly it should have been recorded in detail

Alex

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wanna have a good laugh > http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8...donaldshl6.jpg < check that out!!!

Reptiles1.0.0 het coral Bci0.1.0 het kahl Bci0.1.0 Costa Rican Bci0.1.0 salmon dh sunglow Bci1.0.0 Guyanan Bcc1.0.0 Lampropeltis ruthveni[/option]0.0.2 Elaphe rufodorsata0.1.0 Pantherophis bairdi0.0.1 Oxybelis aeneus0.0.2 Oxybelis fulgidus0.0.5 Leptophis ahaetulla

so what your saying from your research is, that venomous snakes cannot be tamed to any level! are you suggesting that this is because they are in fact venomous? i personally find it hard to believe that a venomous snake knows it is venomous, therefore knows to act in an aggressive manner and refuses to be tamed.
all snakes are different in temperament, throughout different species and individuals within a species! If you were going to conduct a fair experiment of taming venomous snakes it would have been better to use a range of species!
I just think any aggressive or defensive behaviour comes from the snake feeling fear or stressed with our actions around them, "tame" snakes arise when they lose this fear and i can't see that just because a snake has 2 fangs and venom glands makes it any less likely to lose that fear of us with gentle and proper free handling!
what makes it a pointless exercise to ever try to tame a venomous snake, is that every snake is unpredictable and someone could be bitten even by their tamest of corn snakes.
I would never try it myself but i think your brave!

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Oh my God No, i am not saying the practice of Free Handling should be tryed by anyone...

Im just saying most people are very quick to judge

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My field is with apex predators, hence your crocodiles, your snakes, your spiders. -Steve Irwin

I have seen in a youtube video a big eastern diamond back, that is tame(ish) its a venomoid that has been for years and they handle it like a non venomous snake, and although it still rattles defensively it doesnt attempt to strike.

I really do think that the experiment is too dangerous to be worth it, im glad you didnt get tagged mate, because the results could of been devastating, the fact that you came out the other end unscathed is good, but it could so easily have gone wrong.

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