You are entitled to your view point Edward as indeed is everyone else.

I have never denied that l do sell Primates. Nor have l ever denied that l am a livestock consultant or broker, but l am not a dealer.

Is money my main motivator? No it is not.

And perhaps you have a point in what you say - perhaps Primates would be better off banned, but then equally as many would come back and state that once this happens, reptiles would not be that far away. And perhaps equally as many would say the same to the reptiles being banned, and any other exotic animal that may appear to not bode well in captivity.

But if you wish to attack primate sellers then attack all of the ones who are not doing it right, who don't give a flying damn where primates go. It is all too easy to slam dunk those that ARE visible isn't it?

But no, your honesty in your eyes does me no grief.

R

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I can't really see why primates warrant 'extra' protection than any other animal, they all deserve the same level of care and well being.

Yes primates have many criterea that make them unsuitable for a large number of people but so do many dogs. Yet I don't see a rally from anyone trying to ban or license dog ownership.


I should have the same RIGHT to keep primates as anyone else in the UK (that includes zoo's too). Sure I would have to provide the correct husbandary and facilities but if I can do that then why shouldn't I keep them?

The difficult issue is bad keepers, how do you filter them out? how do you ensure that primates are kept correctly? Of course the easy solution is BAN THEM, but hey why stop at primates? Why not ban reptiles, I've seen enough examples on here of people that haven't a clue about keeping them to justify it as much as a primate ban. Heck what dogs? 100's each week dumped on the streets, 1000's over the year destroyed. Why not ban the keeping of those too? It would certainly stop animal cruelty 100%

Now you see where I'm coming from when people push to ban something that they themeselves do not keep or do not wish to keep?

It's a dangerous slope to be on when fellow animal keepers push to get other animal groups banned from private ownership.

There's NOTHING wrong with any of us pushing for increased standards of animal wellfare but to wanting blanket bans will just lead to tears for ALL OF US.

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Email any questions..DO NOT PM, Prices coming soon. (add the word PYTHON to message title to beat my spam filter!) scott@captivebred.co.uk

Well said Scott !

I agree about the dogs they are destroyed at an alarming rate yet these anti muppets think primates or reptiles are there first priority
its ludicrass .this country is being ruined by these types of inbred people and there pathetic ideas about rights !

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oh my god you always get some ritious idiot blow ther trumpet and i bet they dont even know what they are talking about

does he even keep any exotics himself

rory is not a so called animal dealer people go to him to help them sell there unwanted stock

thankyou scott and steve i just wish there was more people out there like you and not single minded people that just post who really dont have a f...... glue

I iz confused, because as far as I was aware Rory, you have never personally kept primates yourself other than ones you are selling on behalf of clients, shouldn't someone with real experience with the animals be helping create/creating a Code of Practice?

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Hi,

TSKA is working alongside primate keepers of all species across the UK on a suggested code of practice for private primate keepers.

The group numbers some 15 UK keepers, and TSKA are co-ordinating their responses into a COP. I am also working with the approval of other parties and we will be working alongside many keepers that work with specialised species.

Just because we are sellers Y/G, does not mean that we do not also have the right to campaign for better conditions for primates. The COP for primates is important to us as it is important to our clients.

Just because l have not owned primates directly, does not mean as a mammal keeper that l do not possess common sense on how a code should be written and what is should contain.

We have some 60 primate keeper clients and not all of them wanted to be involved with the original creation. However once our suggested code is complete, we will be sending out a survey to our clients to receive their feedback.

So in many respects we are in fact working with 'experienced keepers as we always have done'.

There is absolutely no guarantee that this COP will be received nor accepted, however, as said, l am campaigning for primate keepers' rights of ownership, so this was in fact the next step.

How do you all think the codes of practice are to be written up and by whom?

Let us look at reptiles, by far the most complex series of COP's to be written or even attempted to be written. I am not assisting on those, nor do l intend to, but there may well come a time when there will be requested assistance for their creation. How many reptile keepers from the private side will be willing to give up their time to help?

It is much easier to say you will help, but when the shove comes, many people really can not be bothered.

Edward raised the issue about animals 'dealers', he failed to also raise the issue that there are primate keepers out there that do not want a primate code of practice, nor are they really bothered whether one ever appears.

Despite what many people think about myself and the profession l hold, l do actually care about keepers of primates, and every other animal species held, and if codes of practice are needed to ensure the continuation of keeping a species, then yes l will assist where ever l can. But l do want to see the species held in the optimum conditions, and this is no different to how genuinely responsible keepers of this species maintain them now and want them to be kept in the future.

Am l protecting my business also, yes, and why should l not?

If a reptile retailers life business was on the edge, would they too not want to assist in ensuring their business had a future? I am no different.

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Not sure why your mates reply which was prior to your post, replying to mine was deleted or removed, odd that

But basically, the way I see it is, if you haven't kept the animals, then how can you know what is best for them?

Would you, without any lessons or training from an instructor, but having been told how to indicate, accelerate and change gear etc, drive a car?

I think that maybe people aren't 'willing' to give up their time to write up the Codes of Practice because they don't have any relative experience?

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Hi Again,

In response to your line, l have and can only provide three lines from my previous response.

"But basically, the way I see it is, if you haven't kept the animals, then how can you know what is best for them?"


TSKA is working alongside primate keepers of all species across the UK on a suggested code of practice for private primate keepers.

The group numbers some 15 UK keepers, and TSKA are co-ordinating their responses into a COP. I am also working with the approval of other parties and we will be working alongside many keepers that work with specialised species.

So in many respects we are in fact working with 'experienced keepers as we always have done'

Relevant experience would be one issue only, but basically keepers are not willing and those that are, are looking into the codes of practice. But it is due to lack of support from the reptile keeping community of private keepers that the codes may be taking such a long time to actually achieve any real headway. A small team can not do everything at once, and at times, l feel their motivation is just as lacking as the keepers.

R

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it's all very well and good slating rory for not personally keeping primates, but who else would take it upon themselves to sort the COP out?

At the very least we know that rory and nerys both care about their animals and will not take anything on that they don't have the time, knowledge, space or conditions for.

We also know that like the majority of us they want the best for the animals, not just the keepers. It would be very easy for someone who keeps primates in a cage in the living room to come up n say 'this is fine' we know with TSKA they are consulting real primate keepers who look after their animals well. To build up the COP so that it will benefit the primates, and hopefully be a step towards stopping the substitute child/parrot cage situation.

As it is without the COP I fear that primates will be facing in an outright ban in private homes, due to the numpties who think a parrot cage,single living etc are all suitable conditions. The COP Should ensure that dedicated primate keepers are able to maintain their collections, whilst weeding out people who, haven't done the research, nor have the conditions for the animal.


To the poster at the bottom of page one. A dealer to my mind is someone who ships in large amounts of animals, to then sell on for profit with no follow up care nor basic advice....TSKA don't do this, they work with 'clients' yes clients not customers, to help them sell their animals to knowledgeable homes. Which is a damn sight more than can be said of some bloody pet shops with 'cute' monkeys i nthe window...what kind of a message does that send out!? TSKA request that prospective owners can prove that they are knowledgeable on their chosen species before any cash and animals are handed over...

oh no you're right what a terrible job they must be doing. they care about the welfare of the animals they sell on, not just pound signs. How many dealers can that be said about? how many make sure the prospective owners know their stuff before selling them on?? not many, as the majority of their stock gets put into pet shops..now yes some are knowlegeable and make sure they know about the animals they keep. But it's very easy to say 'i've got a 30ft aviary in the garden ready for it' but what they have in reality is alot different. TSKA actually inspect the primates living conditions to make sure it will be suitable. Thats above n beyond the call of duty for a dealer don't you think?

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"The worst sin towards are our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity" George Bernard Shaw