Yea Nerys....You or Rory (david badiel) even seen a monkey
that was a joke BTW before you rip me a new one...LOL

__________________

I agree totally with the concerns as to HOW the tam could reach the sweets in the first place. Do the zoos not have totally secured enclosures any longer ( not been to the one you went to) where they have barred outer fences and then a further fence about 2 metres away with a sort of moat styled thing in it?

Anyhows - your friend will come to realise that aside from scratching and biting etc, they will have to fund a VERY large outdoor enclosure withindoor outbuilding attached which is heated and follow a very complex diet that doesn't include jelly sweets and such like.

Other that that, I know nothing - I don't keep primates!

__________________

I hope you dont mind me asking,do you require any sort of licence to do what you do i.e a pet shop licence,for buying and selling livestock.Just interested do you or rory have any qualifications in animal welfare-You dont need to go all defensive ,these are just out of curiosity .I think you will find most zoos if you know them give primates treats as lures.Their complete diet apart from livefoods is alien to what they would live off in the wild.The only trouble with giving these animals sweets is that it rots their teeth.

Surely rotten teeth is not the only concern? I won't give my children jelly sweets as most contain artifical colourings, flavouring, unknown amounts of glucose, sweeteners and E numbers.

Would the chemicals in these sweets not have an adverse affect on a primates digestive system in any way - it is farrrr from what they would ever get in thier natural diet which is miniced as closely as possible by thier keepers (apart formt he parrot cage brigade of course!)

__________________

What do keepers feed their primates in captivity ,what they would get in the wild,apart from live foods,what else.

Hi,

Do we require a Pet Shop Licence?

No.

In recent legislation discussions concerning internet selling, it has been suggested that a licence would be applicable to us, l hope so, for it will lend weight to what we do in the credibility field. But at this present time there is no licence to cover anyone practising what we do. I wish they would bring out a licence, l know when it was first raised as an issue about 4 years ago, l said that l would be amongst the first to apply for it.

The pet shop licence is not applicable to us and as such we do not require it. The livestock for sale, does not live with us, we are not the actual sellers, yes we are the advertisers but not the sellers. Livestock for sale, stays with the clients until it is ready to be picked up by the buyers or we are responsible for delivering to the buyers.

We do not specifically buy and sell livestock, we co-ordinate the livestock through securement, screen and placement. There are times when we do host the finances for the seller or the buyer, and in some cases we travel to the location, secure the livestock on behalf and then deliver to the buyers.

Most of the time we travel and view livestock for sale or view the premises for the livestock to live with under the new buyer.

Dealers tend to actually buy the livestock and then resell, and l know that people have said we are dealers, but most often and not, our main task is to secure and screen potential buyers for our client base. 75% of the time, most of the sales are between the client base.

Animal Welfare no, again this comes down to the licence and the issuement of a possible licence. They suggest for those holding a psl, that an animal management course/degree/certification etc is a requirement.

I have looked into this and taken advice on what is perhaps the best way forwards. I have some twenty years sales managerial experience, with marketing, promotion, advertising, business management and administration. Have been involved in the mammal field for some 16 years.

And recently looked at taking a degree in zoology, but a divorce has cramped my financial status on that for a while anyway, with a view to after that looking at something else. But to be honest a zoological degree is not even a necessity to what l do.

If an amimal management/welfare certification/diploma was essential then that is what would be taken.

R

__________________

Thank you,a much more pleasant answer.

i'd still say tho, that no zoo staff appreciate visitors feeding their animals titbits unless its something provided by them for that purpose..

heavens its used to be bad enough when i had horses, with well meaning people giving them sugar over the gate.. and slices of bread through the fence..

with most captive animals, diet is something decided and regulated by the people who keep the animals.

i think you will find most zoos, if you know them, would strongly discourage the public feeding treats or foods they have brought with them for their consumption to the animals for any reason at all.

whilst a keeper might use something like a chocolate biscuit as a bribe to entice something into a box.. or chocolate drink to hide the taste of medication.. this is not at all the same as job bloggs feeding pick and mix sweets through the bars.

quals in animal welfare no.. i worked with quite a few vets in my school years, and went on to study zoology and geology at university, which is where i gained a lot of my general knowledge. i've been keeping animals of all sorts for some 30 years now, although its more recently that i have been able to work with some of the more exotic things. i tailored the zoology part of my course into looking at animal behaviour and ecology, in the geology side i looked more into the evolution of the mammals through the fossil record... and what that could also tell you about climate evolution through prehistoric time.. a mere scratch (or thousand) on the tooth of a lond dead ancestor of a horse.. shows when the first grasses evolved for instance.. i still have a set of gold plated horse teeth somewhere, one still stuck on the electron microscope mount!!

it did not teach me how to keep animals.. or what the latest document defra have realeased about how they should be kept should say.. but it was interesting none the less

do you have any quals in anything like that? me, i am always up for learning.. so if you know of any good (and at the moment inexpensive) courses, let me know.. to me a day is a waste if at the end you have learnt nothing new.

Nerys

__________________

Well, let's see. A gorilla weighs around and about double as much as an average human, right? I weigh in the region of 75 to 80 kilograms, so five grams of M&Ms or a chocolate biscuit is going to be about 0.00005 (five hundred-thousandths) of my total body weight. A TINY fraction. Double that for a gorilla's body weight and it's an even smaller proportion of body weight that they're being treated.

How much does a tamarin weigh? Something like 500 grams? One five-gram gummy sweet is 0.01 (one hundredth) of their total body weight - which is significantly higher proportionally.

That would be like someone giving me a kilogram of gummy sweets to eat. Yes, I could EAT it... but I'd be quite sick afterwards! The gorilla might not be - but give them two 1-kilogram chocolate bars and that could be a problem.

__________________
- Ssthisto





Lizards: 2.1 E. macularius1.2 H. caudicinctus1.0 R. ciliatus0.3 A. fragilis1.1 T. merianae1.0 V. niloticus ittibittiusColubrids: 6.8.6 P. guttattus1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora1.1 P. o. rossalini1.0 P. o. lindheimeri0.1 E. anomala0.1 C. radiatus0.2 Lamprophis spp1.0 L. g. nigritus0.1 L. g. californiae1.0 H. n. nasicus1.0 P. m. melanoleucusBoids: 1.1 E. c. maurus 0.1 E. conicus10.14.4 P. regius1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 0.1 P. regius

Ssthisto,do you know any primate keepers who have given a sweet and its had an adverse reactions?Nerys,i understand what you are saying ,if everyone gave the monkeys a sweet they would be very unhealthy,but one now and again will not hurt,look at the crap humans eat,we were not designed to eat what we do.No like you ,the only qualifications is experience ,animals 40 years,exotics 23,all my friends are exotic keepers,dealt with several zoos that have given me excess stock,had top zoo people inspect my premises blah blah,but i have never pretended to be some kind of expert.I dont disagree with what you do i sold reptiles for many years,at the end of the day though,if someone wants a monkey if they dont get it from you ,who could advise,they will get one elsewhere and then it will end up in a rescue centre.Everyone who deals in animals should be open for inspection,rescues,private,some of these keep their animals in disgusting conditions.