Craig Busch - 'Lion Man' - UK Tour? - Page 10

bothrops · #91 (**permalink**) 29-10-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KathyM

Why would you want to line the pocket of such an insufferable, snivelling tosser, that's a better question lol.

Cheers

Andy

mattm · #92 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 11:49 AM

I don't really know of the guy to be honest, obviously if he is a wife beater everyone with half a brain cell would hope he'd be punished in the same way as anyone else. But that is totally seperate and we will never know. Does anyone know why he was fired? I just read that somewhere and am now interested lol.

About the conservation well if he is breeding colour mutations that is most certainly NOT in the name of conservation - i'm sorry but there is no way around that. It goes against any common sense whatsoever. Anyone that has studied such animals in the wild and knows about conservation will know that they need to try and improve their chances as much as possible. Only wild types should be used in a conservation programme. So many animals of different mutations popping up is a result of close inbreeding - NOT something that should be done in animals that are going to be re-released at some point (or even their offspring).

I think a lot of people get drawn into the excitement of it all and forget the real definition of CONSERVATION. Oooh I got to walk a tiger they must be great. Why?? And if such mutations are not occuring in the wild naturally through natural selection, they are a man-made object. Not suitable for reintroduction.

I did watch one repeat episode the other day and I just thought he was an idiot for letting tiger and lion cubs play near a large family of deer. Oh that was clever! LOL.

As for declawing, the only reason I can think they would do that is because they insist on such a high level of human contact with their animals (from what i've seen). It IS a rediculously painful operation and should not be done, full stop. People like this make me angry - so what if there is no cruelty going on or the animals are well looked after, he is still basically LYING to people to make money.

Tazer · #93 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 02:09 PM

My view of mr. Bush, in 2 words.
Prat, scum. Wife beaters should be castrated.

I remember watching an episode, in which, someone asked him what the rarest species of lion was, he said the white lion... which is a mutation, within a species, not a separate species. Complete prat imo.

Don't get me wrong, I've got no problem with people breeding white lions/tigers, for use in tv/movies, or just because they would like one in their collection. But, I can't agree that white tigers have any conservation value, I'm not to sure about white lions yet, if they occur naturally, and can survive in the wild, then maybe there is an argument for them. As long, as the colour doesn't come with any health defects that would be deleterious to their survival, or of the species in general.

bothrops · #94 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazer

My view of mr. Bush, in 2 words.
Prat, scum. Wife beaters should be castrated.

I remember watching an episode, in which, someone asked him what the rarest species of lion was, he said the white lion... which is a mutation, within a species, not a separate species. Complete prat imo.

Don't get me wrong, I've got no problem with people breeding white lions/tigers, for use in tv/movies, or just because they would like one in their collection. But, I can't agree that white tigers have any conservation value, I'm not to sure about white lions yet, if they occur naturally, and can survive in the wild, then maybe there is an argument for them. As long, as the colour doesn't come with any health defects that would be deleterious to their survival, or of the species in general.

Couldn't agree more!

In terms of the white lions, they do occur 'naturally' in as much as a small population that have been reproductively isolated and inbreed. The white mutation doesn't appear to have too much of a deleterious effect on the prides and they can survive just as well as yellow lions. However, the only reason that whole prides of white lions exist is due to the reproductive isolation and subsequent inbreeding.

As with the white tigers, again, some evidence suggests that the mutation survived in the wild due to the larger size of the white tiger and particularly the intermediate size of the 'het'. i.e. the mutation survives because although the homozygote is white and therefore more likely to be seen and less likely to be a successful hunter, the larger size compensates in some way. Add to that the fact that the het gains the benefit of the extra size without the deleterious colour problems and the continuation of the mutation in wild populations.

HOWEVER - due to the animals (lions and tigers) that carry the white mutation going through such a severe genetic bottleneck they have an incredibly low genetic diversity and many of the genetic problems that have occured through inbreeding depression are now well established in the captive populations. Add to that the fact that most white tigers are actually hybrids of many subspecies of tiger (I doubt ANY are pure bengals) means that they are worthless as conservation animals...

Still, at least Craig gets to cuddle baby tigers and has hundreds of thousands of people all around the world willing to give him huge amounts of their cash and the defend him to the hilt (just see the replies on this thread) despite all the evidecne in front of their faces, hey? good good!

Tazer · #95 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bothrops

Couldn't agree more!

In terms of the white lions, they do occur 'naturally' in as much as a small population that have been reproductively isolated and inbreed. The white mutation doesn't appear to have too much of a deleterious effect on the prides and they can survive just as well as yellow lions. However, the only reason that whole prides of white lions exist is due to the reproductive isolation and subsequent inbreeding.

As with the white tigers, again, some evidence suggests that the mutation survived in the wild due to the larger size of the white tiger and particularly the intermediate size of the 'het'. i.e. the mutation survives because although the homozygote is white and therefore more likely to be seen and less likely to be a successful hunter, the larger size compensates in some way. Add to that the fact that the het gains the benefit of the extra size without the deleterious colour problems and the continuation of the mutation in wild populations.

HOWEVER - due to the animals (lions and tigers) that carry the white mutation going through such a severe genetic bottleneck they have an incredibly low genetic diversity and many of the genetic problems that have occured through inbreeding depression are now well established in the captive populations. Add to that the fact that most white tigers are actually hybrids of many subspecies of tiger (I doubt ANY are pure bengals) means that they are worthless as conservation animals...

Still, at least Craig gets to cuddle baby tigers and has hundreds of thousands of people all around the world willing to give him huge amounts of their cash and the defend him to the hilt (just see the replies on this thread) despite all the evidecne in front of their faces, hey? good good!

Agree entirely.

Also, he doesn't raise the cubs, that are taken from their mothers, but seems to get most of the credit for the hard work from the people who do.
Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on Shaun Ellis aka, the wolfman, imo, another prat. But at least, he doesn't abuse his animals, or girlfriend, at least from what I've heard anyway.

Tazer · #96 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 05:03 PM

Found this, looks like he'll be visiting us in a few months, arn't we so lucky.

Lion Man leaving to thank UK fans | Stuff.co.nz

Ursus · #97 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazer

Found this, looks like he'll be visiting us in a few months, arn't we so lucky.

Lion Man leaving to thank UK fans | Stuff.co.nz

Tazer , most UK zoos belonging to BIAZA will not be recieving a visit from the Lion man as BIAZA (the professional body that overseas most UK zoos) has stated that they will not accept him visiting their members and those zoos have agreed to abide by this so good news on that front!

Tazer · #98 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 06:50 PM

Thanks for that.

Wonder who he will be visiting then?.

Out of interest, how many private keepers of bigcats are there in the uk.

messengermatt · #99 (**permalink**) 31-10-2009, 08:02 PM

I think what he has done is appalling and i do not like how he declaws animals etc and claims to be a conservationist because he isn't - its like us breeding leopard gecko morphs and claiming were going to do it because we want to stop them from dying out .......

KathyM · #**100** (**permalink**) 01-11-2009, 11:40 AM

Wow, I feel so comfortable knowing yet another violent criminal is going to visit our country with noone defending his potential victims, yet again violence against women is played down. I hope it's a short stay with a boot up his arse on the way out.

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