Obviously this week has seen some 'serious' responses to primates on/in this forum, which have also led to some heated discussions.

2008 is the year set to see the introduction of the primate code of practice.

The one question that burns holes atop of the sectors against the private keeping of primates is 'Why should private keepers be allowed to keep primates in the first place?'

It is after all a very fair question, so many people have dim views when it comes down to ownership, enclosures, diet and overall accomadation of this species within the exotic field.

Many exotic keepers themselves are against the keeping of primates in comparison to other exotic animals.

What is/are your views, should private keepers be allowed to maintain primates?

Personally, l think that all keepers should be allowed to keep the exotic of their choice that they wish to, providing that they meet the right criteria for the animals welfare.

It is not just down to the right habitat, diet, stimulation, behaviour patterns,animals rights but also down to the acceptance that it is a 100% committed responsibility of ownership.

The talk of the primate codes of practice are that they will be possibly quite severe and strict, this l think is a good policy to follow.

Perhaps disturbing is that there is talk that ownership will be restricted only to what is considered specialist keepers, and l am guessing they may be referring to the likes of institutions, centres and the likes of zoos. But perhaps it could be slightly more in-depth than that?

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...te_keeping.htm

And of course we have the opposition that wish to a complete end to the private keeping of primates within the United Kingdom:

Petition-them.com

So of course this one species - primates is at both the root and the roof of controversy.

Rory Matier
PKL: Pro Keepers' Alliance

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I believe that the introduction of the primate code of practice will be beneficial to primates welfare as long as the code is thought out and conceived by as many experts and people in the field as possibly. If the code does only allow what are deemed specialist keepers keep primates then surely specialist training should be made available to people who want to keep primates, as long as they have valid reasons and can prove they will offer the best possible environment and care to the animals.

I personally would never dream of keeping a primate, i could not afford or devote enough time to it. This isnt to mean i dont agree with primates being kept by people. I see the exotic pet trade as something growing and not always for the good. If it appears fashionable to have an animal that isnt the standard domesticated stock then eventually people who have neither the understanding or the time will end up with animals that will get mistreated and abused. I have seen many exotic mammals being sold by what i see as not all that reliable and reputable shops. How long before a story emerges of a primate dying or having to be rescued due to lack of care.

I cannot explain why other exotic keepers are against the keeping of primates. Is it because they're concieved as truly wild animals, thing you expect to see on David Attenborough programmes rather than in someones home? Is it that they resemble humans alot closer than say a snake or lizard? Whenever i see primates in captivity i can see such a human element to their movement and especially in their eyes. I do understand that primate keepers want to keep them for exactly the same reasons i keep reptiles, because i respect them, am interested and want to learn and care for them.

Psychologically and behaviourally primates are alot more complex than many other exotics kept. Research is continually discovering new behaviour and complexities of primates. I dont believe we understand many primates as well as simpler exotics that are commonly kept. Are primate keepers involved in this research?

Just out of interest is there a rough figure for how many primates are kept privately within the UK? Is this on the rise?

that pretty much sums up my opinion - i don't think we should be looking at legislating against private ownership of any species, including primates. However I would like to see some assessment of an owners ability to keep successfully. (I realise with many species, probably more so with reptiles there are widly differing views on husbandry, so am aware that it is problematic)

FWIW I think the system of assesment you use at TSKA is an excellent means of assessing suitability, and ideally suited for primates and the like (and before anyone starts i dont know Rory or Nerys in the slightest, and have no affiliation whatsoever - but i have read the website and all the recent arguments) I suppose my ideal situation would be one where private primate keeping is allowed, but that all sales etc go through channels in which appropriate assessments can be made. Similar to DWA but with additional focus on environment/stimuli etc necessary for primates, which might not be so significant for a DWA snake for example . . .

xx

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I say no.....

Simply because primates display and possess a higher intelligence than many other animals and their needs are much harder to meet given that they require so much environmental enrichment that can be fairly complicated and company of their own kind. Not to mention the fact that they have never truly been removed from their relatives of the wild variety and still posses the ability to maim humans.

Marina

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There seems to be no process to stop morons from having children so why stop them having monkeys too?

(Thats not to suggest that all monkey keepers are morons. Im just suggesting that if incompetent people can 'keep' other humans then why not monkeys?)

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good point tops

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a person who can and will look after an animal(diet,housing,enrichment,interaction etc.) and continue to do this,also learn and recieve advice,look up about the animal before rushing in to get them,knows of a vet(when needed) and has the time and money- in my mind should be able to have what ever they wish,people have kept primates for years,this i know,other exotics now owned and for sale(new to people as pets) whats the difference,from a mouse to a primate if all the above is adhered to.

yes we should be allowed to keep them just because its classed has an exotic pet does not mean we have no knowledge of them if anything you have to have certain knowledge how to keep them and get there enviroment right yet some of these animals have just come off dwa i dont think therse been one case were a marmo /squirrell /tamarin has attacked and caused serious damage the most your likely to get is a scratch the antis should concentrate on more dangerous pets witch this year already has clamed two lifes ie rottweilers these in my opinion should be on dwa there a lot more dangerous than a primate but the idiots out there who try and make the rules are opposed to exotics in captivity dont think of a dog being dangerous perhaps its to simple for there little brains to cope with . i would imagine that one breed of dog in this country amounts to all the exotics kept in this country that we try and keep and look after the best we can (rant over )

rottweilers shouldn't be banned at all, as a former owner of these dogs I can honestly say that brought up correctly with a firm hand these can be some of the most wonderful animals to own.

the incidents were these attacks took place were in the dogs environment were unknown/non 'pack member' people entered, then the children were left ALONE with these dogs...also to add they were GUARD DOGS!!Trained to be aggressive for crying out loud.. yes it's devastating what's happened to the kids, but no blame should be put on the dogs when it was the owners and guardians responsibility. I wouldn't leave a child alone with any animal..not even my baby rats!

Yes primates shoud be able to be kept, however there should be certain requirements that must be met. Glorified parrot cages are all to common place and that needs to stop. People need to stop seeing them as substitute children and see them as highly intelligent,sociable creatures who need more than a cage and a cuddle.

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as long as requirements are met I dont see why not, there should be a DWA style license on them to stop muppets getting their hands on them but to ban them completey is stupid and unnessesary.

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