Of late there are quite a few threads opening up dedicated to the cat species.

Are they easy to obtain?
Are they in the UK?

And so on....

l have a few clients that have cats of various sizes, but they are not a species that is simply kept by 'everybody' and of course they are kept by a small minority of specialist keepers.

Like primates, they are an extremely sensitive species due to the nature of them, the anti establishments don't like to see them kept at all, and not just by private keepers but this emotion stretches to the likes of zoos and game parks.

My philosophy is simple - if the keeper can maintain them correctly then they do have the right to have them within their collective - but the big questions are: ..............

1] Are they just one 'step too far' in the collections of exotic keepers nowadays?

2] Should exotic cat species actually be available at all?

R

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My views on things like this, not specifically cats, is that as long as they are not taken from the wild, or in any other way deplete wild stocks (yes, I know the very first ones must be taken from the wild... but I think animals that are even F1 or F2 would satisfy me), and they are kept humanely (in all ways: large enough cages, treated and fed properly... etc etc), then its fine.

If they are a rare species, and can see how some people might think it is morally wrong to keep them i captivity with no intention on breeding them, or swapping with zoo's that do, and such like. But, if they are indeed bred in captivity in the first place, they are not depelting wild stocks... but then there is the point that they could have been used to help wild stocks.

I dont know, its a hot potato for sure, lol.

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You know my feelings on this Rory, but for the benefit of the thread...

A healthy bank of genetic code in captivity is vital for the well being of endangered wild animals. This absolutly should be split over private keepers and public zoos (I guess private zoos too). This way you have both a puiblic education aspect, and a "not-for-profit" aspect. Neither zoos nor privates can furfill both of these roles adquatley.

As for getting hold of them - the laws are a joke. It should be elitest and hugely montiored. I know this is unpopular on a forum like this - but it should be a rich man's game.

I'm trying to set up a breeding project at the minute for a species with less than 2400 heads in the wild, and just 3 zoos who have them in captivity. Of the 9 or so captive animals, virtually all come from the same two parents. This is not a good thing at all - the captive kepts may become extinct (or at least genetically unviable) before the wilds (estimated 2014). IMO, we need to start wild harvesting in serious numbers right now. I'm already meeting quite serious resitance among animal righters (and private "keepers") about this.

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Wanted: someone in North London area who can help me learn more about keeping venomous snakes. Happy to donate to food costs etc in return for experience.

also - I think that captive kept gene pools benefit from wild caught input from time to time, regrdless of number of animals kept, although would be happy to debate this with a suitbaly qualified person and proved wrong.

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Wanted: someone in North London area who can help me learn more about keeping venomous snakes. Happy to donate to food costs etc in return for experience.

Hell Barry,tell me again why you are not a TSKA client? LOL

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But seriously, you are right - the cat species market is not for the novice, and def not for the financial wantons.

It is for the elitest, the totally dedicated and obsessive.

And of course to this:

'we need to start wild harvesting in serious numbers right now. I'm already meeting quite serious resitance among animal righters (and private "keepers") about this'.

You will meet great resistance.

Surprised by your willingness to display the 2014 figure, l too was studying the losses of natural species to the world, and was mortified just how damaged we will be by 2030, not too mention that the amazon jungle will be totally gone by 2099!

The Barrier Reef will be completely bleached out by 2030, and most of the great red species now will be totally extinct by the same period unless more harvesting is not actioned.

So valid points raised my friend, very valid indeed.

R

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barry...

two years ago, a buyer in the private sector, who i will not name as they were good enough to tell me about this in confidence...

travelled 500 or so miles (within the uk), paid over a cash sum of under 1500, and drove home with a tiger cub.. no questions asked.. no license, no experience, no enclosure...

(and don't knock them too much, its since been dontated to a breeding project within the zoo network.. and tbh i would have done the same i have to say, if i had been in the same situation.. no, its not ideal, but yes, i would have done it and sorted it out afterwards... )

worrying thing is, this year, the same seller, was at it again, although this time offering a different large cat species..

its no wonder we have a loose large cat living near our village in lincs.. too many people do not sell in the right way at all.

Nerys

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Nerys - I've seen similar myself. I totally beleive it. Terrible story though. (that said - if you have another come up at the same price I'll collect this afternoon... )

Rory - give me a couple of years to finish up in this cursed, poxy city, and I imagine we'll be working on a more professional relationship. I really respect what you guys are doing - and that is unusal for me - as you can probably tell I have a pretty low view on pretty much all shops, keepers, dealers, most zoos, most governmental action on keepers and conservation.. (the list goes on and on...). In fact, most guys in the game exept ZSL and myself. But you guys are doing important work and are not afraid of doing what matters rather than making a quick buck, or keeping teenagers and shop keepers happy on internet forums.

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Wanted: someone in North London area who can help me learn more about keeping venomous snakes. Happy to donate to food costs etc in return for experience.

What you've also got to remember is that we have our own big cat population in Britain!!

I think that it is fine for any animal to be kept in captivity as long as the requirements are met and it is well cared for. At the end of the day, we are wiping out nearly every animal there is on the planet and until we are extinct the planet will not fully recover, so they need to be produced in captivity as much as possible and maybe let into the wild when they're readily being bred in captivity.

Exotic cats should be available, because apart from being extremely dangerous they are no different to any other animal that is allowed to be kept.

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