so why is it that so many people are against private primate keepers,what can a zoo or game park give a primate more than what i can give them,why are zoos and associations against private keepers why why why as soon as you mention you keep primates(i am only speaking about small primates marmies and tamarins) people say should you be keeping them ,why cant we.Whats the diffence between a zoo keeping them than a private keeper in the right sort of environment,it does make me cringe when i hear that people keep them in parrot cages,or in the living room,this is not right this just takes the pee out of people that care for these animals correctly,why do people want one that is only a few months old they should be left with there parents until atleast approx a year you cant class these as pets you cant have them running around your living room this is just not right,they only do this so as not to spend a lot of money on a decent enslosure if you cant afford to then dont get one.You cant tame primates it dosent matter if you get one at 6 weeks old i more or less quantee that when they reach adult maturity that they will bite you,they might attack you and is this the time that you think this is not for me and another primate is moved on,people that keep primates why dont you come forward and say what enclosure/environment you keep them in,if you keep it in a parrot cage then say why u think this is right if you dont then you know what you are doing is wrong also organisations put your thought across i know that they search forums but tell me why private keepers should not keep them and anyone else who has a thought. This is enough of my ranting i just get peeed off with people telling us what we can keep and i do agree with people keeping any animal in the right environment but if they was to ban any one specimen kept in bad husbandry would we be keeping anything.

if one can keep a species of primate in a manner that is condusive to their well being and satisfies all of their needs then i see nothing wrong with it. as a teen, my best friend had a pet squirrel monkey and it was perfectly content... i dare say happy. no problems whatsoever. they were maybe lucky, i can't say but that monkey was cool as can be. i was around it for a couple of years and there were no problems at all... nice as can be.

primates are very demanding and emotional. they like parrots can go nuts. if you are willing to invest in them like a zoo and provide zoo quality care i say go for it to anyone. ... some people just think that they are so cuddly and that's as far as they get into what it takes to keep primates. as intelligent as primates are, they deserve nothing but they best care.

just my opinion guys...

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I dunno where i sit on this, if someone has the time for them and can have more than one and provide a good space or let them loose in the home then fine i have more issues with those who keep one on its own when it'd naturally be in a group and in a small cage with nothing much to do etc. I've never made up my mind on keeping them they're something i'd love but i think i'd always worry that deep down it'd be miserable being in a confined space not swinging free in trees. Just me though, i won't say i'd never have one because i know me and i end up with everything lol.

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I dont really get the relevance of the post are you pro or anti primate keeping? And god is it hard to read without any punctuation.

Im totally pro keepers having whatever they want as long as they can provide sufficient care for it. People who dont keep animals correctly are basically abusing them, whether through intent or ignorance. This should be made a punishable offence. It takes nothing to research up on a animal and learn the basics, something alot of people miss out.

A zoo for example employs experts, someone who is a specialist in that animal and spends their career caring for animals, theres usually more than one person involved in their keeping. Theres almost always a keeper close by 24/7 with an exotic trained vet on sight or on call. They have budgets for enclosures wildly out of the league of most keepers and consult other experts regarding it all. Most keepers without thousands and thousands of pounds cant compete with zoo's, its a totally different ball game.

I dont think zoo's are against private keepers, more against people who get into it for the wrong reason and dont really have the animals best interests at heart. People see monkeys and think cuddly baby like animals, which is totally wrong. They're complex, intelligent, strong and possibly aggressive animals that have very specific and high requirements and needs. If you can successfuly recreate this within a private setting then most keepers and zoo's will be more than happy with you.

sorry i found that very hard to read (i thought i was bad!) you are saying what can a zoo give a primate that a private keeper cant lets hink mmm enclousres much bigger, enviroment aenrichment, trained (very experienced) staff looking after them, vet there when needed , specialised diet thats what a zoo can give a primate.

i think your rant does nothing to sway me that primates should be kept privatley.

Clare

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I might be completely wrong here but I think that the justification for zoos is that it is written in the licensing laws or somewhere that education is an integral part of what they do as well as conservation.

I find a very small relevance between zoos and specialist parks housing primates and private keepers housing primates.

I don't need to relist the difference between the financial belefits and specialist assistance benefits a zoo could offer as people have already done so.

I am very much pro keeping - I think any keeper who can offer the full and correct care and environment to an animal should have the freedom to do so but, let's face it, more and mroe people are creeping out of the woodwork with animals they have rushed into buying for all of the wrong reasons and are happily complacent towards the lackings of the care and environment they are offering.

I would love to see more people saying "yes I keep primates and I keep them damn well" but this is not the case at present.

Hopefully, the COP's will come in to play and offer some form of protection for primates from those people who wish to house them in thier living rooms and in parrot cages on thier own with no stimulation from thier own kind.

It would be good though if you could be a little more specific with your thread though - are you a primate keeper yourself, is it a field of keeping you plan to go into?

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simple answer is zoos etc are generally against people keeping primates because the overwhelmingly huge majority would not provide the correct enclosure,diet, treatment etc etc etc.

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Hi Irwin,

Forgive me, but l had to relay your text bundle into a form l could respond to correctly.

Rory

So why is it, that so many people are against private primate keepers?
What can a zoo or game park give a primate more than what I can give them?

Why are zoos and associations against private keepers why, why, why?
As soon as you mention you keep primates (I am only speaking about small primates marmies and tamarins) people say should you be keeping them, why cant we?

What’s the difference between a zoo keeping them, than a private keeper in the right sort of environment?

It does make me cringe when I hear that people keep them in parrot cages, or in the living room, this is not right, this just takes the pee out of people that care for these animals correctly, why do people want one that is only a few months old? They should be left with their parents until at least approx. a year.

You cant class these as pets, you cant have them running around your living room this is just not right, they only do this so as not to spend a lot of money on a decent enclosure if you cant afford to then dont get one! You can’t tame primates it doesn’t matter if you get one at 6 weeks old I more or less guarantee that when they reach adult maturity that they will bite you!

They might attack you and is this the time that you think this is not for me and another primate is moved on.

People, those keep primates why dont you come forward and say what enclosure/environment you keep them in?

If you keep it in a parrot cage, then say why u think this is right? If you don’t, then you know what you are doing is wrong!

Also organisations put your thought across I know that they search forums but tell me why private keepers should not keep them, and anyone else who has a thought.

This is enough of my ranting I just get peed off with people telling us what we can keep, and I do agree with people keeping any animal in the right environment but if they were to ban any one specimen kept in bad husbandry would we be keeping anything?

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Okay, well l can see that our little chat the other day upset you, so much so for you to come into the forum here and blast away ...... good show, but l did find it difficult to read. So felt for your thread to make more impact, it would help if fellow keepers could see what you were saying and that you were pro keeping.

External organizations that oppose the keeping of primates as indeed those who are also keepers whom are against primate keeping are as such because of a number of different issues and emotions.

The anti establshment feels the way they do because they can not see how any primate can be kept in the 'real time environment' that it is as a species deserving. Fellow keepers who are anti primate keeping feel this way in reality for very much the same reasoning.

It is a long held debate and belief that the private keeper can sustain primates in their collections if they do so correctly, and that all needs are met - housing, environmental, stimulation, diet and care. Additionally the argument that many keepers can perform this equally as well if not better than the zoos is long standing.

Zoos are governed by boards of directors and of course administrational and financial cuts, so that the belief that the private keeper whom is not restrained by these issues can do as much as a decent job as do the zoos, but possibly do it slightly better due to an independant income that is not restricted by administrations.

The argument against private care is not new, it is as said long standing. Primates have been under political debate for a good many years now, and those that oppose this species being kept, are campaigning against it - to the eyes of many perhaps for good reason -you and I both know Irwin that many keepers do not research sufficiently, never have and many never will as long as primates are sold by those who themselves do not undertake any kind of research into whom is buying their animals.

In recent months we have seen on this forum alone, cases where animals should not have been purchased and indeed not sold, for they have gone to the wrong keepers, and on this premise alone, it is not just primates that l am referring to.

More responsibility needs to taken on board, by private sellers, by private buyers, by retailers. Once this achieved only then will we start to see the results of good practice and then slowly we could make a difference.

But alas, l feel that good practices may now be falling upon and viewed by deaf ears and blind eyes. For the campaigns against primate keeping in private hands have already commenced by the likes of the RSPCA and of course Monkeyworld.

I too become frustrated when l hear of keepers refering to primates as pets, for indeed this is not what they are, they are an exotic species. But as soon as the word pet is mentioned with this species, it does set to inflame the various opposition orders and rightly so. For once 'pet' is tagged onto it, it appears that many people seemingly disregard any respect for that animal in many cases.

I think more primate keepers do need to voice their opinions, and most assuredly more keepers need to come out of the woodwork and address this issue of private ownership. For failure to comply with this little political issue, could well result in the ability of many species to be kept in our futures.

Rory Matier
PKL:PKA

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