at a lower kh ammonia looses an ion turning it into the chemical compound ammonium which is a lot safer for fish with regards to toxicity, adding raw ammonia to a tank is madness, if ammonia levels are to high to begin with then ammonia will damage the bacteria that feed on it, i am all for finding a way to cycle a tank without risking fish health but adding raw ammonia, unless precisely and accurately measured is going to cause problems, using small amounts of fish food is much better, but for gods sake dont put raw ammonia into a fish tank!
the only way this would work is if someone out there has very reliable dosing instructions, and if you slip up then your gunna have to start again....and again...and again....

5-6PPM of ammonia is NOT going to harm the bacteria in any way. In fact, it's like giving it a feast.

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this is starting to sound like a really expensive hobby lol, if im testing the water every day??

i dont understand the bit about the water change, spend all that time over it then take 90% out?

very helpful thread though if not a little off putting lol

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it's not really that expensive, because you're only using one at a time.

yeah, the bacteria is growing in the filter, not the water. and then at the end you'll have lots of nitrate, which will kill your fish. that is why you do the large water change.

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ah nice one

just aske this in my other thread but is it worth having my filter in the tank and on atm as i wont be adding amonia or a heater for at least a week. cheers

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Good post. Interesting discussion. For the record there is another way to build your filter bacteria - Adding your fish very slowly a few at a time. Boring if you want to be up and running straight away, but at least you have som fish to watch and if you really do take your time, then the levels never get too high.

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Yes but what you are suggesting is very bad practice, you are essentially throwing your fish into ammonia.

the best ways to start a tank are using a fishless cycle or filter cloning tbh anyone that cycles with fish has no business keeping fish imo.

Ive kept tropicals for 25years and never once cycled a tank using fish.

I was one of the many many unfortunate people who discovered the fishleess cycling method AFTER I already had my tank and first fish...due to the usual bad advice from the LFS who seem very loath to embrace the method. Maybe because they're in the business of selling fish so that when the so-called "hardy" fish die from the toxic effects of ammonia and/or nitrite, they go "oh dear" and sell you some more...

In order to try and save my fish, I had to do daily water testing, daily 50% water changes, add dissolved salt, Ammo-Lock - you name it, I did it! - for almost a month until both the ammonia and nitrite were zero and the tank was finally cycled. I only lost two fish during this period but several died in the weeks and months afterwards and I've no doubt that their health was compromised by having been through the cycling process.

So IMO not only is the fishless cycle the humane method of setting up a tank, it's also the least hassle. You add your daily dose of ammonia, test the water and only do the large water change at the end of the cycle to remove the excess nitrates. It's a no-brainer really.

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i only found out about fish-less cycling recently, my local fish store recommended i start with some guppies and platies

all went well as it was about 6 fish in a large (about 90cm) tank, but y'know, fishless cycling its juts that much more humane, and faster from what i gather.

fish flakes will not do as good a job because they need to broken down into other compounds (including ammonia) first by other bacteria.

personally i think the best bet is ammonia and some sludge from an existing filter if you can get it. seed&feed

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You can also use cow shit for cycling tanks. (no bull)