did i read before that someone keeps tiger and fire sals together?

[IanF94]

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen if it was true. I find it's best to just keep a no mixing rule with all amphibians and reptiles- Here's some reasons from a website I found-
Question: Can I Mix Species When Setting up a Terrarium?


Answer: Sometimes, when people set up a terrarium they wish to create a "mini ecosystem" and add a mix of species that will cohabitate in the terrarium. While in theory this sounds like a good idea, it is a situation fraught with difficulties and can only be achieved with a great deal of research and work. For the average keeper of reptiles and amphibians, it is not something I would recommend. Here is why:

• Different species have different requirements, even if the differences seem quite minor. In the wild each species occupies a unique niche even within the same general climate, where temperature, light, humidity vary depending on the specific habitat of each species (e.g. tree vs ground dwelling, terrestrial vs. aquatic). In an unnatural situation (the terrarium), it is hard to provide an environment that closely duplicates the natural environment needed to keep single species healthy and stress-free. Providing natural conditions for multiple species is extremely complicated, even if they originate from the same area.
• Terrariums for mixed species generally need to be much larger than those for a single species, and are more difficult to maintain. Extra room is needed to provide the proper environmental conditions and furnishings for each species, as well as allowing each species their own space to hunt and interact somewhat naturally. Crowding different species together in a small tank can be a recipe for disaster.
• Carnivorous critters are usually not picky eaters, and will try to eat smaller cagemates of any species. This still applies to animals (lizards, frogs, salamanders) that are largely insectivorous; most of these will not hesitate to hunt other small animals given the opportunity especially if confined in a tank with them. Also consider the stress you place on an animal, confining it in close quarters with a potential predator.
• Toxicity may be an issue with some frogs, salamanders, and newts. Many secrete mild skin toxins. These toxins may not be dangerous to humans, but they can accumulate in a tank and cause problems if absorbed through the skin of other tank inhabitants or if a cagemate tries to eat a toxic amphibian.
• Animals may become stressed by behaviors and displays that are unexpected and that they do no know how to interpret. Between species that do not normally coexist, normal behaviors and benign displays may be misinterpreted, and this may lead to fighting or stress.
• Animals from different areas or habitats have differing immunities to parasites and infectious diseases. Therefore, one species may harbour a bug that it can carry with no ill-effects. However, if that bug (be it a parasite, virus or bacteria) is introduced to a species with no natural immunity, the result can be devastating.

Hope this helps.E.D.A From what I remember, Fire Salamanders need cooler temperatures than Tiger Sals.

[LauraMartin]

as above, i think, i may be dreaming this tho, that i read someone keeps tigers and fires together and the tigers burrow whilst the fires stay out on the surface. is this right? i dunno which member it was that i think i saw pics of.

thing is i have 2 tigers and thinking of getting another, i want a bigger viv all nice and planted and think it would be nice to maybe have 3 or 4 together, i was obviousley gonna get tigers, to go with my tigers, but just wondering if fires and tigers are compatible? i thought the fires had a higher temerature requirement? but as far as amphibs go i currently only know about tiger sals, so anyone with more salamander knowledge, please let me know your thoughts?

[LauraMartin]

yes but the thing u posted is referring to any species mixing, i am talking specifically of fire and tiger salamanders. i am not sure about fires requirements but i think it may be the same as tigers, thats what am asking really. i think i read it, but i may have just read that someone has both, but not together and iv just mis-interpreted it.

[IanF94]

Alright sorry, I'm just abit nervous when people mention mixing two Salamanders, alot of people on another forum do it and then end up with dead Salamanders, which annoys me.
I suppose it might be possible, but neither would be very happy. Tiger Salamanders only like it slightly damp as you know, Fire Sals need it damper. Also they like different mosses. You'd need a huge Viv to give them both what they wanted.
Oh, do know why my first post it at the top of the page? It's abit strange...

[LauraMartin]

yeah thats true, am not saying am doing it, i just thought i read it. i think i might get another tiger tho i just love them so much. i dunno why your post went to top either, wierd.

[spend_day]

Originally Posted by LauraMartin

as above, i think, i may be dreaming this tho, that i read someone keeps tigers and fires together and the tigers burrow whilst the fires stay out on the surface. is this right? i dunno which member it was that i think i saw pics of.

there was a pictures thread of spotted salamanders and fire salamanders that were kept together not long back

Originally Posted by IanF94

Alright sorry, I'm just abit nervous when people mention mixing two Salamanders, alot of people on another forum do it and then end up with dead Salamanders, which annoys me.
I suppose it might be possible, but neither would be very happy. Tiger Salamanders only like it slightly damp as you know, Fire Sals need it damper. Also they like different mosses. You'd need a huge Viv to give them both what they wanted.
Oh, do know why my first post it at the top of the page? It's abit strange...

i have to disagree with this, as far as the information i know and my care of these animals, my fire salamander like quite a dry substrate ( well dry for salamanders) while my tiger is kept and seems most happy on a much more moist substrate, also the info ive had from other keepers tend to agree with this. im not quite sure what u mean by difference mosses since u with the exception of keeping tigers on spagnum (which has long term health effect) there isnt really anything else moss wise i know of except the general impaction issues (temp issues shouldnt be an issue while tigers shouldnt be kept above 24C and fires shouldnt be kept above 21C they both seem to do well at 16-20C (temp i keep them at)


where i think certain species of salamander could possibly be kept together fire and tigers are one of them,

for starters fire sals are pretty toxic and im sure this must have at least some sort of negative impact with long term exposure on any "tank mates*

secondly tigers are traditional quite out going active species while fires are somewhat more secretive (altho mine isnt) and i would worry there would be some stress or food competeition issues caused by this, also tigers taking a bite out of a fire sal would be another issues i would be woprried about

finally set-up as mentioned substrate dampness of the substarte is one thing but also fires prefer a quite compact substarte while tigers like a looser more easy to dig in substrate.

as u can see there are several major worries with this mix. and i think its a great example of 2 species while on paper (well basic caresheet) look compatable and once people have kept them a while it quite clear they cant be kept together.

[spend_day]

thread i think your on about http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphi...lamanders.html

[LauraMartin]

yeeaahhhh!!! thats the one, so im glad to see i wasnt going mad, i actually did see that hehe.

[LauraMartin]

yeah u make all very good points. i know nothing about fires really, i only know about what i have, and yes my tigers prefer a damper substrate, i have a good moisutre gradient, and they always hang around the most damp parts, rarely stay in the dryer area.

i have 2 barred tigers, would u think its ok to keep regular tigers (tigrinum) with the barreds? i know they are different localities but are the same species and have same care requirements. (i think)

[spend_day]

Originally Posted by LauraMartin

yeah u make all very good points. i know nothing about fires really, i only know about what i have, and yes my tigers prefer a damper substrate, i have a good moisutre gradient, and they always hang around the most damp parts, rarely stay in the dryer area.

i have 2 barred tigers, would u think its ok to keep regular tigers (tigrinum) with the barreds? i know they are different localities but are the same species and have same care requirements. (i think)

well for a long tiger barreds were seen as a subspecies to easterns and i would put money on it that its been done before without any1 really realising lol

personally i cant see the issue