plantation soil instead of coco panel for flooring

[twydell]

im thinking of using plantation soil by exo terra instead of coco panel for flooring in my whites tree frogs tank.... mainly because i have live plants and they are all in small pots and i feel i should give them some freedom to grow.... can plantation soil cause impaction? im not uding coco husk anymoere because im scared they can become impacted by it

[Ron Magpie]

Originally Posted by twydell

im thinking of using plantation soil by exo terra instead of coco panel for flooring in my whites tree frogs tank.... mainly because i have live plants and they are all in small pots and i feel i should give them some freedom to grow.... can plantation soil cause impaction? im not uding coco husk anymoere because im scared they can become impacted by it

You want my honest answer? i think WAAAY too much fuss is made about impaction. I've kept frogs/toads/treefrogs/varients for many years, on all kinds of substrates, and I've never found it to be a problem- in extreme cases, my frogs have shown themselves to be quite capable of hoiking extra stuff out of their mouths when eating, without losing the prey or immediately pegging it! others may tell you different from their own experience. As to the plantation soil, I suggest you have a drainage layer of gravel or clay pellets under it to stop it turning sour, perhaps separated from the soil by a membrane (garden membrane or even old net curtain work well). The pots can be sunk into this without the roots rotting or else the plants planted in the soil above the membrane. The only issue with 'free planting' is that it's harder to change the arrangement if you decide it isn't working or you don't like it.

[chrism]

Originally Posted by Ron Magpie

You want my honest answer? i think WAAAY too much fuss is made about impaction.

Amen!

I saw a care sheet a while ago on dendrobates listing what not to use because of impaction. I have also kept multiple amphib's on various substrate, and NEVER had any die from impaction. In partic if watched fat toads eating substrate in a rush to 'shove' the food into their mouthes with their front legs, and never any probs.

Out of interest, your plants are in pots- where where they from? I buy lots of normal plants for viv from garden centres, but always de-pot as the pots normally contain perlite etc.

[twydell]

Originally Posted by chrism

Amen!

I saw a care sheet a while ago on dendrobates listing what not to use because of impaction. I have also kept multiple amphib's on various substrate, and NEVER had any die from impaction. In partic if watched fat toads eating substrate in a rush to 'shove' the food into their mouthes with their front legs, and never any probs.

Out of interest, your plants are in pots- where where they from? I buy lots of normal plants for viv from garden centres, but always de-pot as the pots normally contain perlite etc.

thanks for the replies

plants are from dartfrog. when they came they seemed really healthy but now they are kind of shrivelling and dry looking... i water them loads.. im assuming the pots are just restricting them

this drainage system your talking about, is it like as if i was making a proper planted vivarium? a layer of gravel for the water to sit so it doesnt water log but then naturally evapourate? or would i have to build some sort of gadget thing where it runs off into to some sort of pipe after going through the gravel? confused.com

[Ron Magpie]

Originally Posted by twydell

thanks for the replies

plants are from dartfrog. when they came they seemed really healthy but now they are kind of shrivelling and dry looking... i water them loads.. im assuming the pots are just restricting them

this drainage system your talking about, is it like as if i was making a proper planted vivarium? a layer of gravel for the water to sit so it doesnt water log but then naturally evapourate? or would i have to build some sort of gadget thing where it runs off into to some sort of pipe after going through the gravel? confused.com

EXACTLY like a planted vivarium (which is what you want to make, lol). No tech needed, just a place for the water to go, instead of turning the substrate into a marsh. In my experience, plants do much better in this kind of system, and also do their bit to keep the humidity up in the viv.

[twydell]

so i dont change the soil afterr that? no need for anymore clean out it will run its own eco system? lol

[Ron Magpie]

Originally Posted by chrism

Amen!

I saw a care sheet a while ago on dendrobates listing what not to use because of impaction. I have also kept multiple amphib's on various substrate, and NEVER had any die from impaction. In partic if watched fat toads eating substrate in a rush to 'shove' the food into their mouthes with their front legs, and never any probs.

Sorry to double-post, but I wanted to answer this one! Many years ago, when I lived abroad, I dissected the 'droppings' of some wild-caught cane toads. I found beetle wing cases, broken pieces of snail shell and small bones- either from another amphibian or a fish. None of this seemed to cause the toads any distress.

[Ron Magpie]

Originally Posted by twydell

so i dont change the soil afterr that? no need for anymore clean out it will run its own eco system? lol

So long as the little beasties are in place! Lots of people on here buy woodlice and springtails online for a 'natural' system, I just mix in some 'live' leafmould from a clean beech/chestnut wood. Some of the organisms probably can't survive the higher temps, but enough do to make it largely sellf-cleaning.

[chrism]

In lots of my tanks I just use hydroleca, covered in leaf litter.

What plants did you buy? You'll often find lots sold by 'specialist' retailers are just from normal garden centres where you can get them much cheaper!

What plants are shrivling / dying? Some need misting instead / as well as watering, others dont like 'wet feet' etc etc.

Originally Posted by Ron Magpie

So long as the little beasties are in place! Lots of people on here buy woodlice and springtails online for a 'natural' system, I just mix in some 'live' leafmould from a clean beech/chestnut wood. Some of the organisms probably can't survive the higher temps, but enough do to make it largely sellf-cleaning.

Originally Posted by twydell

so i dont change the soil afterr that? no need for anymore clean out it will run its own eco system? lol

As Ron was saying, the secret with running a self cleaning eco system is not just the adding of springtail, woodlice etc, but also giving it a chance to establish itself. This also gives the plants a nice chance to grow in etc.

This is a link to the best supplier of springtails i've found. Good price too.

Livefood Warehouse Springtails

[twydell]

thanks for everyones help im planning it as i type this... im going to call it pandora... from the film avatar...muahahha!.......sad.