help a newbie!

[muttley1026]

hi all and thanks for a great site! my name's ian and i'm an amphibian newbie! i hope you guy's can share your wealth of experience with me on my little venture. right, here we go!

i've kept fish of all kinds for many years, but mainly discus. i now have stingrays. i'm doing really well with them and hopefully thats how it will stay!
i dont just buy something without doing my research thats why i'm on here. my tank is 5ftx2ftx2ft. it's a big set up, being plumbed up to 4ft filter tank in the garage. it's quite simple but works really well. we moved in november and the new house has a floating floor, so that was re-enforced to take the weight of the new tank. try as i might, i could'nt get it level! so it became a paludarium, with the rays in a foot of water!
this is where i need some help. half way up i've built a glass shelf that goes from one end right to the front at the other end, like an L shape.
to this i've built a one and a half inch wall from the left overs of the stone effect backing, to keep the eco earth from falling in the water. the shelf is 8" wide and almost 7ft long.(along the back & one side). i've got slate on the glass for drainage, eco earth on this, a sprinkling of bark chips and moss. i've got live plants which are growing at an amazing rate! i've got bivitattus on the back coco panel, a tilandsia flowering all the time, two large ferns and another plant that i cant recall the name. thats been trimmed twice in two months! it's obviously very wet and humid, but i do have a fogger, mainly for effect than anything else. lighting is two aquarium t5's, one day light and one plant life. these are on for 11 hrs a day, 1pm to 11pm. there are cover glasses, and the lid and all escape holes netted. i do have a problem with condesation on the front glass. so, there you have it, my set up. what, if any, frogs or toads would suit this enviroment? not going to spend a lot because the long haired general will not be best pleased!! any help would be really appreciated. will try and do some pics, but 'tech stuff' is not my strong point!! many thanks, ian.

[Ron Magpie]

What sort of temperature is the land area at? That would help. Also, not too clued up on rays- how predatory are they?

Welcome to 'Phibs, BTW

[muttley1026]

thanks for your time ron. it,s around 68 to 70f when the lights are off, and 75f'ish or more when the lights are on. as for the rays, if it fits in their mouth, then they'll try it! that said, they tend mouth things first, then spit it out.( unless its a worm). my main concrn is frogs falling in the water and drowning! i can make ways for them to get out of the water. the only way the rays will get them is if it goes on the bottom. rays dont really leave the bottom, but some do swim up and down the glass, mine do. i was thinking of fire bellied toads, i think they'd love the wet conditions. also the vietnamese blue tree frog, american tree frog or maybe some dart frogs? like i said, i've never done this before so any advice is more than welcome! thanks again, ian.

[Ron Magpie]

Ok, FBTs are out for a start- it's too warm, and they produce a slow-acting toxin, over time; it may not effect the rays, but it could. Also, they spend a lot of time in the water, which increases the chances of them being eaten. There is a lot of debate about the swimming abilities of darts, but I would say that this is a bit too aquatic for them. The treefrogs, especially American greens, would seem to be your best bet- subject to the usual research, of course! They do well in groups, as well.

[muttley1026]

thanks ron. to be honest, the green tree frogs were what i wanted. i was aware of the toxins released by the toads but not how much. one more thing, how can i get over the condensation on the front glass? i had thought about feeding an air line with holes in it across the top of the glass so that it blows air downwards, like a car heater does the screen. what do you think? dont think a fan is an option due to the amount of water dripping from the cover glasses. just need some twigs or vines to finish it off and i'll start looking for some frogs. thanks for the help, its always good to have someone to ask rather than just blindly diving in! green tree frogs it is then! thanks again, ian.

[Ron Magpie]

What is the tank covered with? If you can get some kind of cross ventilation going (vents at both ends), that might help. All the usual solutions (computer fans etc) are likely to be too small for a tank this size.

[soundstounite]

Hi Ian also ahh dick das and muttley the good ol' days

Because i know nothing on rays,in a bit warey of what phibs to go for,I've been racking me old brain since you posted this ,because i know i've seen a massive set up which I'm sure housed rays and phibs,i think it might have been on dendroboard,i linked it here a couple of years back i think,i'm mentioning it because some kid like ron whose brain still is young enough to remember things,might place it for us,i'll ask on dendroboard as well someone will give us a link,if its that site. I don't know if darts would be applicable,again warey on the toxins,far more so than the swimming ability.
digressing slightly this thing about amphibians drowning especially darts,I'm slowly but surely starting to believe is an urban myth,i was watching little mysties leucs and tincs all diving for cover all a week out of morphout and all swimming like fish the other day,obviously there must be easily accessable escape roots,to exit the water,but beyond that i think these is probably another reason/cause of death, than simply the phib drowned. ie it was already weakened sick etc.
If you really like GTF then go for them mate,its so important that one adores what one is keeping,Oh and the law here states you need to take some pics,so far the only guy who brakes this repeatedly is actually ron,but he gives us such wise words its hard to not forgive him,this transgression.Joking aside it also gives folks a real good idea of which phibs might be best suited to a set up
best of luck with your project
regards
Stu

[muttley1026]

thanks ron and stu, i'm working on the pics, but being a computer numb nuts it may take time!! lol. the tank is a standard budget tank from nd aquatics. its got sliding cover glasses and a split vented lid.i think the geens would do ok in there. it is really wet and gets fogged twice a day for 15 mins each time, so would they need a water dish. if they do, i can build it into the tank water so it's constantly being cleaned. i'm also going to put a vine trailing in the water so they can get out if they decide to go for a dip! as for the rays, i really dont think they'll bother them at all. i've got corydoras in there and they dont bother them at all. i'm looking at getting 3 frogs due to the space available. cheers.

[soundstounite]

Ian its taken me since you posted here's some reading,i finally remembered the guy's web name and found this for you,i haven't time to check out the ray aspect,but its fantastic to read and hugely inspiring,and I'm sure some rays end up in it.

Large Vivarium Construction - Page 14 - Dendroboard


Buddy up top is a thread about loading photos into photo bucket,i am equally hopeless with this damn machne but it got me there................well eventually
Stu

[muttley1026]

found the photo bucket jobbie. i now have to get this poxy computer sorted! seems i've no room on the hard drive disc thing. cant even open photo's already on my laptop! if it aint one thing its sumut else!!