Suspention incubation method...

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

However current experiments in birds have shown that increased 02 concentration has no effect on hatch time, or mortality. Obviously I am not naive enough to suggest that this means that reptiles will not show differences, but I would be very interested to see some of the papers you have based the product on.

Andy

Hello Andy,
First I would like to thank you for you educated post and open mindedness in regard to our product...

I would like to point out that we are not incubating bird eggs in the container, we are incubatating reptile eggs... Some common species and some species that are seldom reproduced in captivity... The pysiological differences between bird eggs and reptile eggs are vast...

It is proven that too little oxygen and too much carbon dioxide negatively affects ebryotic and neonative development...

Too much carbon dioxide and not enough oxygen has been documented to cause reptiles to hatch prematurely and under-developed... It also causes embyotic death...

Increased oxygen intake and proper carbon dioxide ventilation has proven to yield fully developed, healthier, stronger, more robust hatchlings... Again, this has nothing to do with heat...

As I have noted before, most reptiles do not bury their eggs... Most reptile eggs are layed in and around areas where they are not being smothered by substrates and can get the proper amount of oxygen needed for development...

Honestly our results speak for themselves and the results from our customers will speak even louder... There are numerous species being tested on the SIM by some of the top breeders in the world...

As far as messengermatts statements go, it would really help if you did some research on reptile egg incubation in the wild and in captivity before you try to raise an argument on how this system is useless or not good... Seriously, how can you say something is no good if you have not used it or seen results from it??? I am not sure what you have based your opinion on, but it seems like you are trying to fault something know nothing about... I am also wondering where your breeding and hatching experience lies...

Between john and myself, we have 40+ years of experience keeping and breeding reptiles from cornsnakes to gaboon vipers and geckos to large monitor lizards... We have seen many problems with the conventional way of incubating over the years... What we are doing by releasing this product to the public is improving the way we incubate reptile eggs and to help breeders and hobbists to produce stronger, healthier reptiles...

[cordylidae]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

The price is not high... Like I said the system can not be duplicated being that the molds are all original and the size a spacing of everything was not just thrown together... There was a long time of testing and tweaking to get it to the point it is at now...

im not saying that it was just thrown together but something simailar could be made for less money

Also what is your statement of this system not being viable for certain species being based on??? Is it based on any factual data or is it based on something that someone said who has never used this system???

so this will be viable for every egglaying species there is then,ofcourse if wont and you cannot prove it will the information about hatch rates and times need alot more data to be proven and all other factors inc temperature, humidity etc need to be exactly the same to prove this you need to repeat these tests alot for the data to be accurate as different eggs can take longer to develop under the same conditions im not saying that this incubation method does not decrease or change egg hatching time or mortality im saying before you make these claims you need to have more data to prve it

I never held back the price on the container... I simply did not talk price in the thread because it was not a classified ad... Anyone who PMed me got the price of the container right away... It really makes no difference on when or how the price was known because the product was not made available to the public before last weekend anyway...

So what are you paying the 20 bucks for???
You are getting a proven method that will increase hatch rates and shorten incubation times... There is no making, building, or modification of any parts... You get everything you need in one package... You will no longer have to worry if your eggs are getting the right amount of humidity or not...
The 20 bucks you spend gives you a really cool looking, well made product, that is fuctional and worry free...

but for the same money you could make about ten of these

This container is very far from "crap"...

sorry for any typos

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

I would like to point out that we are not incubating bird eggs in the container, we are incubatating reptile eggs... Some common species and some species that are seldom reproduced in captivity... The pysiological differences between bird eggs and reptile eggs are vast...

It is proven that too little oxygen and too much carbon dioxide negatively affects ebryotic and neonative development...

Too much carbon dioxide and not enough oxygen has been documented to cause reptiles to hatch prematurely and under-developed... It also causes embyotic death...

Increased oxygen intake and proper carbon dioxide ventilation has proven to yield fully developed, healthier, stronger, more robust hatchlings... Again, this has nothing to do with heat...
..

Thanks for your reply, I have a couple of responses;

Firstly, I would contest the point that the physiological differences between birds eggs and reptile eggs are vast. They are in actuality very similar. In fact it is arguably the case that soft/ leathery shelled reptile eggs are more different to hard shelled reptile eggs, than the latter is to birds eggs. I obviously realise though that this container is not designed for birds eggs, however the research carried on birds eggs is quite appropriate.

The second two points I will not contest however I would also suggest that the current method is providing the correct amount of 02 and C02.

The final point is the most interesting, I would truely like to see the data for this, but will say that the process of 02 uptake is intrinsically linked to temperature.

Andy

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

Thanks for your reply, I have a couple of responses;

Firstly, I would contest the point that the physiological differences between birds eggs and reptile eggs are vast. They are in actuality very similar.

You can contest it all you like, but it does not change the fact that the physiology between the two are very different... In fact, one of the most well known differences is that bird eggs need to be rotated and reptile eggs can not be rotated...

[lizard queen]

hmmm, these sound interesting. i always find it frustrating when people are convinced that hatchling success rate is always temperature dependent, and they never even consider gaseous exchange. i'd but interested in giving these a try, and you're entitled to charge anything you want after all you guys have conceived, designed, tested and constructed these things and rightly so deserve to make a profit on them. For those who think they're too expensive, don't buy them, and next time your selling your hatchlings don't forget they cost you nothing to make, so surly they should be free....

[Jazz]

Personally I've nothing to say either for or against the product having never used it, but I wouldn't buy regardless.

I wasn't going to say anything but I read your comment before you edited it. Being so rude and confrontational is not the way to gain customers. I don't know how you conduct business in the US, but in the UK we find being polite to potential customers is a much more successful way of getting them to part with their money.

Also, I can understand you may feel pride for what you've come up with, but you might want to try sounding a little less defensive when someone questions it.

If nothing else, its good business sense. There's no rules to say you have to like your (potential) customers, but it helps if you pretend to.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by Jazz

Personally I've nothing to say either for or against the product having never used it, but I wouldn't buy regardless.

I wasn't going to say anything but I read your comment before you edited it. Being so rude and confrontational is not the way to gain customers.

Well I did Edit my post so that should say something...

What can I say... I am only human and it is hard to sit and watch people call it "crap" on a public forum when they have no idea how the product works...
Did the people calling it "crap" consider the amount of hard work and money it took to get a product out there to help reptile keepers and breeders to better their hatch rates???

Obviously the ones calling it crap were not potential customers... After all, they are going to make "10 of these" themselves for less than what we are selling one for...

lizard queen,
Thank you for your support and your comments...

[alan1]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

Well I did Edit my post so that should say something...

What can I say... I am only human and it is hard to sit and watch people call it "crap" on a public forum when they have no idea how the product works...
Did the people calling it "crap" consider the amount of hard work and money it took to get a product out there to help reptile keepers and breeders to better their hatch rates???

Obviously the ones calling it crap were not potential customers... After all, they are going to make "10 of these" themselves for less than what we are selling one for...

lizard queen,
Thank you for your support and your comments...

you have to expect both "positive and negative" comments, although i agree, some could choose their words more carefully...

looks like a decent enough product... having said that tho, i'll continue to incubate "my way"...

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by alan1

you have to expect both "positive and negative" comments, although i agree, some could choose their words more carefully...

looks like a decent enough product... having said that tho, i'll continue to incubate "my way"...

Thank you Alan.

[messengermatt]

on further investigation i found that these can be made at home for the fraction of the price using a braplast tub, i also believe that Glasgow Gecko is correct about the issues raised regarding "physiological differences between birds eggs and reptile eggs".

I wont be rushing my babies along and am happy with my current incubation method.

so for these reasons i'm out