Suspention incubation method...

[Jazz]

It was that you edited it rather than outright apologising. Each to their own, but I feel that would have been better that even if you did edit, a quick apology for what you had typed would go further towards convincing us you did it to be genuine (or the appearance of it) than as a quick cover up for something that would not go in your favour.

Anyway, yes calling it crap was unfair but you're not going to please everyone. I'm afraid it's a matter of taking it on the chin and politely explaining benefits to those who are interested. Respectfully word replies to enquiries and be as open and upfront as possible.

The 'crap' comments are not worth your attention. You wouldn't have these people as customers initially anyway as you say. But who knows, if other people use your product and have positive things to say about it, maybe they'll change their mind one day.

They won't ever change their mind if their initial experience is a bad impression. Unfortunately people remember that kind of thing too easily.

And only one person outright called it crap if I remember correctly(not to say others haven't agreed). Of course they probably didn't consider any of the actual work that may have gone into this. That's the point. Its not a thought out conclusion, it's probably just a knee-jerk reaction. The worst thing you can do is retaliate with a knee-jerk reaction of your own. I know you're only human, we all are; and as an artist I know how awful it feels when someone doesn't like something you create, but you really need to step back count to ten then formulate an emotionally neutral and informative reply if you feel the need to defend what you are trying to sell.

I'm really not trying to be an a*** here. I think the idea certainly warrants attention but you've got more chance of winning some more of us over to trying it if you don't start off on a bad foot by taking negative comments too personally.

I'll apologise now for any typos, run on sentences and the like, it's late an I'm half asleep.

[marcgroovyge]

My concern would be the many holes. Hatchling legs and a flooring like that is a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Especially as their bones havent formed.

also in reference to the no CO2 comment, Its impossible to neutralise CO2 unless you pump pure oxygen into the incubator which will damage the embryo.

I agree that the comment about this being crap was out of order but a tub like that would waste a lot of space inside any incubator and also would not be suitable for every reptile egg.

My own opinion is that i could make a safer cheap version of that with a plastic tub and cocktail sticks, which would be made correctly for individual sized eggs layed by reptiles without all the holes!

[messengermatt]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

My concern would be the many holes. Hatchling legs and a flooring like that is a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Especially as their bones havent formed.

also in reference to the no CO2 comment, Its impossible to neutralise CO2 unless you pump pure oxygen into the incubator which will damage the embryo.

I agree that the comment about this being crap was out of order but a tub like that would waste a lot of space inside any incubator and also would not be suitable for every reptile egg.

My own opinion is that i could make a safer cheap version of that with a plastic tub and cocktail sticks, which would be made correctly for individual sized eggs layed by reptiles without all the holes!

I agree, a leo's leg would fall down one of those holes and it'd hurt itself

[alan1]

Originally Posted by messengermatt

I agree, a leo's leg would fall down one of those holes and it'd hurt itself

suppose you could use a few layers of kitchen roll?

[marcgroovyge]

But thats a substrate....

[messengermatt]

Originally Posted by alan1

suppose you could use a few layers of kitchen roll?

Yes you could use that however you would then be putting the eggs onto a form of medium that would defeat the object of how the product would work

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

My concern would be the many holes. Hatchling legs and a flooring like that is a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Especially as their bones havent formed.

This is why it it not safe to make assumptions... The spaces that make up the grid are only 5mm... Not large enough for a hatchling leopard gecko to get its leg caught up and cause injury... There have been leos hatched on this as well as dwarf monitors and there has been no issue...

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

also in reference to the no CO2 comment, Its impossible to neutralise CO2 unless you pump pure oxygen into the incubator which will damage the embryo.

When eggs are in a substrate, the carbon dioxide builds up around the egg and the egg surface is not exposed enough to take in as much oxygen... With this system, being that the eggs are not in a substrate, the carbon dioxide moves away from the egg and 100% of the eggs surface can take in oxygen...

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

I agree that the comment about this being crap was out of order but a tub like that would waste a lot of space inside any incubator and also would not be suitable for every reptile egg.

Thanks...
Surely a container that helps hatch rate would not be a waste of space in any incubator...
Also, can you please name one species this would not work with and the source of that information... There seems to be much more speculation than actual proof being thrown around...

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

My own opinion is that i could make a safer cheap version of that with a plastic tub and cocktail sticks, which would be made correctly for individual sized eggs layed by reptiles without all the holes!

Like I have said, every aspect and part of this container has a particular function... The bars in this container are fully adjustable to fit any egg size...

[cordylidae]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

This container is very far from "crap"...

i havent said it is crap sorry if i have came across that way but i have only pointed out things to you as said by other member the legs thing is an issue hence why it wouldnt be viable for certain species like smaller geckos athought i suppose you could supply a fine mesh to solve it with minimal change to the product

also im not saying that the container doesnt change incubation times etc what im saying is before you can make claims etc you should have more data to prove it (before i believe it anyway but i could well be wrong) also read this http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B...age&q=&f=false

tbh the way it has been made look good but its just whether or not the theory behind it is correct as to your response about me making ten etc i didnt say that they would be of the same quality as your but they would work all the same there no need to respond to people how you have you have to accept that your product wont be for everyone

Originally Posted by Gregg M

It is proven that too little oxygen and too much carbon dioxide negatively affects ebryotic and neonative development...

Too much carbon dioxide and not enough oxygen has been documented to cause reptiles to hatch prematurely and under-developed... It also causes embyotic death...

Increased oxygen intake and proper carbon dioxide ventilation has proven to yield fully developed, healthier, stronger, more robust hatchlings... Again, this has nothing to do with heat...

As I have noted before, most reptiles do not bury their eggs... Most reptile eggs are layed in and around areas where they are not being smothered by substrates and can get the proper amount of oxygen needed for development...

Honestly our results speak for themselves and the results from our customers will speak even louder... There are numerous species being tested on the SIM by some of the top breeders in the world...

what you have stated there is that to little will affect but surely once there is enough for a healthy hatchling then the more there should be no difference anyway i have nothing further to say on the product until more reliable data has been collected if i am wrong i am more than happy to apolagise to you on this thread

[Gregg M]

Photos speak louder than words...

Another species hatching on the SIM....

Iguana iguana (Green Iguana)







Keep a close eye on this thread because there will be many more photos of NUMEROUS species being hatched on the S.I.M.

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

You can contest it all you like, but it does not change the fact that the physiology between the two are very different... In fact, one of the most well known differences is that bird eggs need to be rotated and reptile eggs can not be rotated...

Yes birds eggs need to be turned, but this has nothing to do with gas exchange. The point still stands, the research I have mentioned is the nearest physiological experiment which tests the type of response you are claiming. It finds no associated decrease in incubation time.

I am of course not saying that it is not possible, but single replicate samples do not count as data, nor does pictures of various species hatching. After all, many of us here can post pictures of animals hatching using conventional substrate methods.

I am also not saying that the idea doesn't have merit, I think it does, but to claim the 'science' behind it, I personally think that you need much more actual data.

Kind regards,
Andy