Unhappy with Craig Ford Python Man purchases?

[Caz]

Originally Posted by boa-stu

surely even if he is a private seller trading standards can get involved,will paypal not help out as you bought an item that is not what was advertised?

No they can't. And they wont. They will give advice, full stop. Civil matter.

If I were you i'd open the Paypal dispute NOW. ASAP.
I find it amazing how outstandingly NICE the people are here about being conned. Perhaps someone should start a collections service alongside a delivery service to kneecap the dishonest sellers along route?

On the point Boa-stu made re RFUK. I recently pointed out on a For Sale thread in the Tortoise section that the tortoises were not testudo hermanni hermanni. Even though a Mod agreed with me another Mod removed my post from the thread and they are still for sale misdescribed! It would seem that 'RFUK' doesn't mind.

[Ssthisto]

I opened the PayPal dispute last night. I'm happy to have a partial refund (which PayPal's disputes process allows for) and I specified that the animals were "substantially not as described - i.e. wrong size, colour or model" and that "the substitution was of lesser value".

I also mentioned that the agreement on the weights was in writing, and that I could provide that information - and that I had photographs, taken in front of the courier, to prove that the animals were not as advertised.

As far as it goes, about being "nice" about being conned....

Don't think I haven't ranted about the size of the animals I got - or the farce trying to get them here (my coworkers had to deal with a Ssthisto who got up an hour earlier than planned and didn't get her morning cup of coffee as WELL as being thoroughly hacked off). But I don't see the point in taking it out on everyone else on the forum when I did decide to post about it - I'm not angry at *you guys* or even at the RFUK moderators.

I mostly posted on the basis that I don't want other people buying, say, "breeding weight females" from him and getting 400-gram juveniles; I also wanted to make it publically clear that I absolutely DID get animals that are the wrong weight. I carefully checked the animals I got against the photographs I have - not only to make sure I was sent the animals he said he was sending me - but to prove that the animals I received and showed photos of on the scales are the animals he sent, and not just some '09 babies that I've pulled out of my breeding rack (boy, I wish I was hatching out '09 fires and yellowbellies!)

On a happier note....

Both of them fed last night. No fuss, no muss, no assist, just ate.

So now I'm wondering how long it was since they last fed, since the "pickier feeder" fire was willing to eat less than 48 hours after arrival on a rat pup that was left on the floor of the tub for her and the yellowbelly whomped down her fuzzy rat like they were going out of style.

[Ssthisto]

Wonderful. Looks like my PM and note about the PayPal dispute have had some results.

Craig would like to have the snakes collected by courier on their next run, and he'll try to get the money back to me somehow - no guaranteed time, no guaranteed date, no guaranteed means.... and it sounds like he's no longer speaking to his best mate who he had us pay the money to "because he owed him for his car insurance".

Sorry, Craig, the PayPal dispute will stay active at this point. I'm not going to give the snakes back until and unless the money is *already* back in my account, via PayPal refund of the original transactions (including the money I sent for the fees).

[bennett]

How cheeky, return the snakes and il try and refund you.

He should be giving you at least £200 part refund and let you keep the snakes

Scammers always seem to scam the wrong person in the end, He will have his turn

[craig ford python man]

I have never said that the snakes would be exactly that weight. All weights were given approximately and I have never said I used scales to give you an accurate weight. If you had wanted exact weights you could have asked and I would have done this for you.
There is no way these two snakes can be valued at £200 less than they have been sold for, a quick look at the classifieds on this forum will show you this. A female fire, 185g, for more than you have paid for yours. I fail to see how 59g is worth £100?
Cb08 royal morphs
You could not expect to get a female fire royal for £300 even in the current financial climate.
If you had paid £550 for a female fire that was said to be 300+g then yes you would have a reason to be upset, but you have paid a fair price for what you have received. Below is a link to a female fire which is over 300g for sale and its price. A lot more than you paid.
royal fire female

The same goes for the yellow belly, how exactly do you value a snake that sells for £350-400 to be available to you for £300?
CB08 Royal Python Morphs
Various snakes available (Hampshire or Maidstone Show)

You paid a fair price for what you received, no one would sell two similar snakes for £200 less unless they were in desperate need of the money. A full refund has been offered, but I am not willing to send the money before I receive the snakes.

[kenneally1]

ssthisto dont meen to jump on your thread.... but craig, you sir are a scamming F****ing W****ker, and you give rep keeping a bad name!!!!! you advertised a fire aprox 250g, it was what 126g give or take ---that is scamming you Tit!!!
well you balls'd up this time as ssthisto is 1 of the more intellegent/dilligent users on here and, as seen, she has VERIFIABLE evidence.......n*b!!!


and dont get me started on the, i'll take my snakes back THEN rerund!!!!!

[crazycallum]

I don't get how hes scamming if hes offered a full refund tbh...

[kenneally1]

he sold a snake 1/2 the weight it was advertised as! - is that not deceitfull?

[Ssthisto]

When a customer asks you "what do they weigh" the customer is probably asking for what they actually weigh, not "pull a number out of the air because it sounds good". I did actually ask you in so many words "what does the other fire weigh/how big is she?" You stated she was "bigger than the 300-gram one I had advertised" then gave a "she's about 250grams" - I figured you'd gone back and looked to see that no, she wasn't really bigger/heavier than the originally advertised animal.

I told you via PM I'd bought a 740-gram male yellowbelly for £320 and sent you a link to it - yes, females are worth more, hence £400 for a 500-gram one sounded fair. Lower weight (500 grams instead of 740), younger animal (08 rather than 07), but female so greater price. But what I got is definitely NOT what I agreed the price on - if I had known that she was not even 200 grams, I would have said "Thanks but no thanks, I'll just wait for an '09 baby, unless you want to go down £150 or so on the price." There'd have been no hard feelings if you'd said "no, I'm definitely looking for £400 on my 200-gram female yellowbelly" - I'd have just said "good luck to you on selling her, I'm sure there's a buyer out there for her, but that buyer isn't me at that price." All things considered, an '09 baby is essentially what I've got - it wouldn't be impossible to get a very early hatchling up to the same size by now.

How exactly is "half or less the advertised weight" anything like "approximately" a weight? That's like saying a Volkswagen Polo 2-door is "approximately" a Volkswagen Golf 5-door, or like saying a pair of size-4 shoes is approximately a pair of size-8 shoes. Heck, it's like saying you refunding me "£200" is approximately refunding me "£500". A bag of chicken dippers might say "approximately 50 pieces". You would not expect to open that bag of chicken dippers and only have 19 in the bag, would you? THAT is the difference between what you advertised to me and what you actually supplied to me. Opening a bag of 50 chicken dippers and finding out you have 45 - or 55 - is "approximately 50". I wouldn't be complaining if I'd weighed her and had a 450-gram snake; I'd pass it off to "he must have approximated the weight after feeding but before poo." Heck, a 400-gram snake, I'd have been disappointed, but not ANGRY. But a 200 gram "approximately 500 grams" snake is taking the piss.

You told me yourself that you needed the money because you'd lost your job and that your friend had paid your car insurance for you, hence your selling the animals and your request that I pay the money to your friend directly. So I certainly had no reason to think that the prices you offered were exceptionally low. The fire you've posted that's up at £550... sure, it says no offers - and it hasn't sold yet either, has it? I personally think it's too pricey for me, all things considered, and wouldn't buy it. I recently advertised two snakes at £50 each; I actually SOLD them for £60 the pair delivered. That's because that was what the market was willing to pay.

That fire also has stuff in the picture that shows how big it actually is, while we're at it - the newspaper print shows that that animal is in fact "approximately" 300+ grams as opposed to "actually" 125 grams. Prices "down south" tend to be higher than prices up here on royals; I've been watching those trends for months. In the last year my partner and I have spent "approximately" £10,000 on royals (that's "about £9,800" in real terms, not "about £4000") so we have been watching the market and following prices very closely.

You've got my address and even my home phone number; I don't know yours. All I have is your mobile number and your friend's Gmail e-mail address - both of which are ephemeral and disposable. If I let these snakes be collected - and I drop the PayPal dispute before getting my money back - and you DON'T refund the money to my PayPal account... then I have absolutely no recourse and no way to reclaim that money - you're £820 (plus 3.5% PayPal fees - making it about £860 I sent) richer off my back. The fact that you don't seem to understand the qualitative difference between "your buyer purchased a snake described as 500 grams" and "your buyer received a snake that actually weighed less than 40% of that" doesn't mean that PayPal won't see the difference.

So far, your actions have shown that it appears to be a scam - three other snakes I know of are not the right size, they're half the size advertised, and you asked that buyer to pay money into your girlfriend's bank account "because you owed her money" - and the fact that you won't refund my money before you get the snakes back even though *I* trusted *you* and paid you two weeks in advance of having received the animals - says that I can't trust you any further unless I have at least SOME of the cards in my hands.

You even asked me to send the money to your friend as a "gift" - which would have meant I had absolutely NO recourse to reclaim anything at all. It's amazing how you're suddenly not talking to your best friend - and apparent business partner in this matter - any more, the moment there's a dispute and a refund owed.

As I said, I am willing to discuss the partial refund specifics; perhaps there is a compromise there. I do think the female fire is very pretty, but because she's so small, the colours can and will change as she grows. If she'd been the colour she is at the weight you advertised I'd have been absolutely thrilled with her. I'd like to keep them both and get them up to the weight they SHOULD be by this age.

However, I am perfectly happy to return the snakes the day the funds are refunded directly to my PayPal account - including fees - from the original transaction. There's a handy-dandy refund button in PayPal to let those payments come right back to me, no fees owed, no fees paid. Have your friend Callum click it on both transactions and I am quite happy for the snakes to be collected as long as I have enough warning to be sure I'm in the same building as the snakes are so that they can be handed over. They'll need another 24 hours to digest the meal I gave them - please keep that in mind when arranging for a courier collection. I'll keep feeding them every five to seven days until you pick them up, seeing as their weights relative to their age tell me they haven't been fed that regularly up to this point.

It doesn't matter, in the end, what other people are charging for their snakes - what matters is what I paid you for based on your advertisements is not what I received.

[royalpython]

Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

Thats all good saying it now, but at the time you expect people to be honest. I mean you can say if you had driven there and seen them. then of course you would realise, but prior to that when your led to believe they are what they are and youve had photos and spoken directly to him, then it dont seem back

that post certainly was a long read but very important and hopefully will stop others from doing the same thing
By the way your gramar is brillant

i hope you get a refund...to be honest you should get a full one for the time you have had wasted. like buying a 3 seater sofa and only get a beanbag.

sorry that you got messed around by him. What ever happened to the good old days where keepers used to help eachother and reptile keeping was about all coming together as a community

i think people should not expect others to be honest... classified ad's always pose a risk of scamming, and honesty. If you take the risk and buy from a classified, i then it's a buyers risk. I believe people have been scammed plenty on here and never received a full refund.

Ssthitso, be careful. The courier has said they won't use this guy again, and make sure you get your money back first, or you may end up with no snakes, and no money.

Originally Posted by Tops

yes i refuse to ever send money as a 'gift' too because ultimately if youve said its one, then how are you to say any different.

I think asking for photos of the animals on the scales with the weight showing isnt too much to ask either though with some people just getting a photo or a rough weight can be hard enough.

people could off-set the balances, so the weight on the balance without pressing "TAR", might read 300g... then you put a 150g snake on top, and it looks like 450g. Picture's of snakes on scales are not proof unfortunately.