Starting a Venomous snake collection.

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by WW**

That needs some qualification. Postsynaptic neurotoxicity can be reversed in the sense that the toxins simply block the receptor - if you can get the toxins off the receptors (antivenom, acetylcholinesterase drugs may both have an effect, depending on toxin), then the effect can be reversed fairly easily. It's rather like putting sellotape over your computer's USB port - pull it off, and you are back in business. Death adders are a nice example, where patients can go from being totally paralysed to wanting to go home for dinner in the space of a few hours after a/v or neostigmine.

Presynaptic neurotoxins are different in that they actually destroy the nerve terminal - like smashing the USB plug with a hammer. That does mean that antivenom or other drugs can't reverse the damage (although the a/v can mop up any venom that's still in the circulation, which is obviously a good idea), so it is irreversible in that sense. HOWEVER the body itself can repair the damage given sufficient time, so the damage is not irreversible in the sense that the patient is irreversibly screwed.

Papuan taipan bite patients that do not receive a/v before neurotoxic symptoms develop usually spend ~ 5 days on a ventilator (sometimes considerably more), but they do usually recover and go home (although they will probably feel pretty cr@p for quite a while). The same applies for krait bites and a variety of other snakes with predominantly presynaptic neurotoxins: it takes a long time, but the body will repair the damage. So, medical management of a victim of presynaptic neurotoxicity without a.v., using just life support, is certainly feasible, although there are quite a few risks associated with extended stays on a ventilator - early a/v is certainly preferable.

Thankyou WW...That answered a couple questions I had to ask...

[HABU]

Originally Posted by Chris_Law

Habu,

I'm in Ohio as well...in Columbus, actually. Looks like you've found quite a few nice specimens. I unfortunately only made it out once this year to Shawnee, but with no luck. Made it up north and found some nice 'Sauga's though.

Chris

well hey neighbor!!

you're just up the road there from me!

yeah, shawnee sucked thiss year for snakes... it stayed cool and rainy here from spring up until mid summer... it was nice towards the end of summer though...

on the flat-land it seemed nice but up in the hollows and creeks it always stays cooler because you know it takes a while for the sun to come up over the ridges and then it sets quickly... and if it's cool and that cold rain comes down, those hollows never get a real chance to warm and dry out...

it was great for the skinks and amphibians... they had a good year... but the snakes mostly hunkered down... i don't think they bred well this past season... not in the forest at least... outside the hills, in the fields and low, open areas they might have done better...

this year will be good... if it gets hot early... a nice, wet spring and a drier summer... then those hollows will warm.... those creeks you know flowed all this season... and that water is like refridgeration in the hollows... that with less sun making it into the hollows are rough on the snake activity...

... you should hook up with me this year if you like and we can do some herping!!

just p.m, e-mail or instant message me anytime......

do us some fishing too!




bad year for snakes but the tadpoles had a good one in shawnee!!

[HABU]

Originally Posted by Chris_Law

James,

We don't have "plenty" of nice Timbers, but there are a few. They are endangered here.

Chris

let me qualify that... they are on the state endangered species list... but,...

this is the ddge of their range so it's their frontier... they stop where the glaciation line is... they only live in the unglaciated areas right here in ohio mostly... for some reason.

so they are endangered because that is really the only way to afford them any sort of protection... and even that doesn't mean anything to the locals... they kill them on sight anyway... most probably don't even know that it is illegal to molest them and certainly to kill them...

portsmouth is a hick town to the extreme... they make deliverence look like a documentary... nothing but meth-heads, pill-snorters and in-bred idiots here...

anyway... they are doing good research here on the rattlesnakes... i was told that this one place i camp was where they had recently release some 500 timbers back into the wild...

damned coyotes... they are a big problem... eating everything... prey animals as well as the predators...

i'll be packing heat when i camp next spring just in case i see one close.. saw a few last year... but their prints and scat were everywhere... they run the ridges mostly... i'll shoot them on sight...

[kelboy]

Originally Posted by HABU

damned coyotes... they are a big problem... eating everything... prey animals as well as the predators...

i'll be packing heat when i camp next spring just in case i see one close.. saw a few last year... but their prints and scat were everywhere... they run the ridges mostly... i'll shoot them on sight...

In September, I was out in the garden, (Illinois) around 10pm, and a coyote came within 20 feet of me, obviously smelt deer, stopped and stood for a good 20 seconds, looking at me, and just sauntered off, cool as you like. It just goes to show how cocky they're becoming. It was unbelievable.

Unfortunately, I'm home now for 3 months.

[SW-morelia]

Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

count your self lucky mate, i have a scrub python regurg a 5 day long adult rabbit on me while back...sure not venomous but deffiently scarred me for life

Viperlover really liked your answer WW. Can't see why he's so interested in what you're up to all the time

Originally Posted by PDR

Well I wear a face mask while scraping dried venom from Petri dishes and weighing it out on the balance so it makes sense when cleaning venom from cage surfaces to also take care.

When it comes to extracting venom from spitting cobras I wear surgical scrubs so if I do get covered in venom I can change my clothes rather than risk walking around for the rest of the day with venom that will dry and I’d then possibly be breathing in.

So the heightened sensitivity will present it self how? Anaphylactic (Sp?)
shock? As in allergic reaction,
or just the effects of the venom take hold quicker?

[WW**]

Originally Posted by SW-morelia

So the heightened sensitivity will present it self how? Anaphylactic (Sp?)
shock? As in allergic reaction,
or just the effects of the venom take hold quicker?

Initially you'd be most likely to notice an itchy nose, sneezing, a rash etc. when near venom or even just the snakes - a bit like hayfever. Once you are at that stage, a bite would then be highky likely to result in anaphylactic shock, which, in extreme circumstances and untreated, could kill you in a matter of minutes.

PDR's advice to avoid exposure to venom, particularly in the form of airborne dust, is definitely good.

Cheers,

WW

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by WW**

Initially you'd be most likely to notice an itchy nose, sneezing, a rash etc. when near venom or even just the snakes - a bit like hayfever. Once you are at that stage, a bite would then be highky likely to result in anaphylactic shock, which, in extreme circumstances and untreated, could kill you in a matter of minutes.

PDR's advice to avoid exposure to venom, particularly in the form of airborne dust, is definitely good.

Cheers,

WW

Dr. Wuster,

Am I right in saying that dried, or venom in powder form is also at it's most dangerous stage? I imagine with all the water evapourated, or removed...The toxin is stronger to speak, and would take less of it to do the human body some serious damage.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers!

[Jack W]

Originally Posted by ViperLover

Dr. Wuster,

Am I right in saying that dried, or venom in powder form is also at it's most dangerous stage? I imagine with all the water evapourated, or removed...The toxin is stronger to speak, and would take less of it to do the human body some serious damage.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers!

Interesting question!

[WW**]

Originally Posted by ViperLover

Dr. Wuster,

Am I right in saying that dried, or venom in powder form is also at it's most dangerous stage? I imagine with all the water evapourated, or removed...The toxin is stronger to speak, and would take less of it to do the human body some serious damage.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers!

It's not about the quantity of venom and the acute toxicity, but simply the fact that you are particularly likely to develop an allergy against something you breathe in or get into your eyes. The quantities involved normally much too small to cause any real envenoming. Allergy and the toxicity of the venom itself are totally different issues.

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by WW**

It's not about the quantity of venom and the acute toxicity, but simply the fact that you are particularly likely to develop an allergy against something you breathe in or get into your eyes. The quantities involved normally much too small to cause any real envenoming. Allergy and the toxicity of the venom itself are totally different issues.

Ahh!

Would a simple thing, as in the same amount of powder associated to a drop be of a concern if it leaked into an open wound, or around an open wound on the body?