|
|
|
|||||||
05-11-2009, 06:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
I was fortunate enough to be on the committee of what was one of the largest Herp Societies back in the early to mid '90s (MKHS). One of our committee members applied for and obtained a DWA license to keep 6 rattle snakes of various species. Now things might of changed over the years, and as some posters have mentioned each local authority have different views on what's acceptable and what's not, but here are some of the things he had to do before they granted the license.
The snakes had to be housed in a room of their own. In this case it was the small 3rd bedroom of his mid terrace house. The room had to be modified to include a double door entry, ie like an air-lock, where the first door is closed behind you before opening the second into the room. The window in the room had to be screwed shut and sealed with mastic. Mirrors had to be installed so that the banks of vivs could be seen at all times. Each viv had to be double glazed with locks on both sets of sliding glass doors. A fridge installed and anit-venom stored for each species. 3rd party liability insurance (which cost him a small fortune) purchased and the certificate displayed. Plain walls (the room was originally decorated with woodchip) - so he had to re-plaster the room. Sealed floor - the floor boards had to be sealed and ply sheet covered and sealed on top. This was then covered by lino and sealed around the walls. The cost of this was several thousand pounds, and that was before he got any snakes. Now the OP might want to research the requirements of a DWA from his local authority. My guess is he is still living at home with his parents (being 16) and probably thinks it's OK to house a Boomslang or other venomous snake in a viv in the living room, much the same as you would a corn or milk snake. It also begs the question what his parents feel about him keeping such a potentially dangerous animal in the family home, or if they have the funds and space to undertake the same conversion as my friend did those years ago. To the OP I would strongly urge you to reconsider getting into this. If you want to get into herps start off with non-venomous snakes, then when you've gained experience and want to keep venomous, start with something that has "mild" venom rather than something which could put you in hospital for days if you got tagged. You may find that if you can prove you have had two years experience keeping snakes, you might be in a better chance of being granted a DWA license, than if you have never kept snakes at all. |
|
05-11-2009, 07:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
A thought on being bitten
It is fairly common knowledge that I have been tagged a few times. Some bites have occurred in captivity, some have occurred in the field when photographing or milking venomous species. I am not ashamed of being bitten although I find it embarrassing because it happens when I have made a mistake. I would of course be ashamed if I were bitten doing something stupid. I personally hope never to be bitten again, it is not fun, its is not a "rite of passage", it can be very painful, it takes a week out of your life, and it could take a whole lot more.
Most people who work with venomous snakes for a long time, especially under less than optimum field conditions, can expect to be bitten. They don't set out to be bitten, they certainly don't want the t-shirt, but it is an ever present occupational hazard that one tries to keep to an absolute minimum. Joe Slowinski made a serious error when he put his hand into the snakebag in Burma, after his field colleague told him the snake inside was a Dinodon. He didn't check the ident first, just put his hand in and felt around. It wasn't a Dinodon, it was a many-banded krait and almost 30hrs later Joe paid for his mistake with his life. It is that easy! Claims that "I don't think I would be bitten" are somewhat cocksure. That suggest the person concerned possesses some sort of sixth sense that is outside the experience of other keepers, some sort of mystical power handed down from the ancients. Surely that is not the case, and if it was it would surely come with age and experience, not adolescent enthusiasm. One more thing about being bitten by a dangerous species. Forget everything you had planned for the next week because you no longer have any say in that, you are going to hospital. I have to ask why a 16year old wants to keep venomous snakes. When I was sixteen I had been keeping snakes for eight years and was still completely fascinated by boas, pythons, ratsnakes, kingsnakes and the like. There were venomous snakes available, for relatively few quid (rattlers £2.50, common cobras £5, 8ft king cobras £32) but I knew my limits and living at home with my parents I did not think I had the right to (or any chance of) introducing such creatures into the family. I know things have moved on but there are still dozens of fascinating nonvenomous snakes to keep and breed, many more than there were when I was 16. I suspect this is an ego thing and nobody should look at venomous snakes as an ego extension. Personally I think a DWA license should not be available to persons under 21. I am sure some will disagree with that sentiment and so be it but someone else on this forum equated experience with maturity. A final comment. "The most venomous snake is the one that just bit you." I think this is Al Coritz's phrase but it really does not make sense. My first venomous snakebite was a British adder, but biting me (in 1975, 3weeks after the last adder fatality in the UK) did not make it any more venomous than it was before it bit me. It is important not to confuse "most venomous" (which is a constant based on LD50) with "most dangerous" (which is a variable based on circumstances). It might be a truer statement to say "the most dangerous snake is the one you did not see" (all assuming it was venomous of course) but that is the problem with cliches, one size does not fit all. Mark |
|
05-11-2009, 07:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Agreeing with Malc
I thoroughly agree with Malc although possibly not that Milton Keynes Herpetological Society was one of the largest in the UK
I agree with all the requirements as stated for the maintenance of venomous snakes under the DWAA, except one - the holding of antivenom my private persons. The Dept of Health holds antivenom to cover snakebites by all venomous snakes kept or suspected to be kept in the UK by private and zoo collections (although zoos are expected to also maintain stocks of initial doses wherever possible). The suspected to be held is important since with 95% of venomous snakes in private hands being 'underground' if you like, it is not clear what is being kept and you are fortunate enough to hold the only pair of an especially rare species and then get bitten by one of them, you only have yourself to blame when it turns out there is no antivenom. So I urge all keepers to send a list of their venomous species to the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine and if they have done so, and many did last year, keep that list updated. Lists can be sent anonymously and do not require your name, address, postcode or inside leg measurement, just a list of what species you keep and how many. Moving on, the DoH does not approve of private keepers keeping antivenom. This is a dangerous drug and it needs to be kept in a particular way and even more importantly, administered by a medically qualified person with the facilities to treat anaphylaxis. The idea that someone might inject his mate who just got bitten is too horrifying to contempt and could lead to manslaughter charges. Better to keep some self-injectable epipen in the fridge to give yourself the extra time if you begin to have problems before the ambulance arrives, or learn how to do an Aussie bandage for an elapid bite. Some antivenom is just too expensive for people to maintain, single vials of Crofab (rattlesnake), Bioclon (American pitvipers or African species), or CSL (taipan, blacksnake, polyvalent Australo-Papuan, death adder) may cost anything from £600 to £1,500 a vial, and you may need many more than ONE! And it it goes past its expiry date most doctors won't use it. So you would be buying an expensive drug with the intention of throwing it away. No A/V at home please. Mark |
|
05-11-2009, 08:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Regarding the AV in private storage - I can't remember if it was simply to have AV on site with the intention of it being available to be administered by qualified paramedic / doctor in the event of a bite prior to being transported to A&E. - Like I said it was 14 - 15 years ago, and things may now of changed. I remember the chap (who's name escapes me now) saying that truth be know the LA were making it difficult for anyone in his area to get a license, so maybe they were being constructively awkward in his case. I must admit that when we entered the room, with him (someone who was very experienced in keeping snakes for some years), I didn't feel comfortable knowing that there was always the potential of some accident awaiting to happen the moment I or anyone dropped their guard. |
|
06-11-2009, 12:19 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
What an absolute honour to have someone like Mark O'Shea come on here and share his experiences with us, its just fantastic.
To the OP, listen to what Mr O'Shea has said, he out of anyone else who has commented on this thread has the experience and know how to guide you in the right direction. You are looking toget into DWA snakes without actually owning a snake before, this is just crazy. if you have never experienced a snake (nevermind an angry snake) everything in your head is just a pipe dream. You would jump the height of yourself if a hatchling corn snapped at you, i can guarentee it, so even a mangrove or a FWC is way beyond your level of competentcy. If you are really interested, start off with a king snake/corn snake/ball python and get used to these and then gradually progress onto more demanding snakes (non venemous). After talking to a couple of DWA keepers near me they have said you need years of experience before even contemplating keeping venomous reptile, one said to me anyone keeping DWA less than 15 years after starting the hobby are totally mad. Slow and steady wins the race, working your way to something like this may take a long tme, but the experiences you will have during this time will not only be valuable for the future, but it will be amazingly enjoyable as well. |
|
06-11-2009, 02:28 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 Matt |
|
06-11-2009, 02:50 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Thankyou so much Mark.... The quote is what Al Coritz uses, but I adopted this after being tired of reading on, lets say "Less educated" forums then this about people saying "My snake's more venomous then you're snake" OR... "This animal is more venomous then this animal (LD50) so I will be more careful while working with this animal, then this animal" I just simply laughed loudly and ignored their bickering I understand the risks involved with keeping Venomous reptiles....and being still at home....I am not planning on introduceing highly venomous serpents into the home such as Boomslangs as I do have very young siblings....Not to mention it would be a selfish act on my part if anyone were to be tagged by an escapee. In my opinion, ALL Venomous animals deserve respect and I concider them ALL as dangerous. It doesn't take much to cause an Allergict Reaction.....And as you pointed out, 20+ Vials of Goat Serum, with excruciating pain and a possible amputation is in no means fun to say the least. And that's if you survive the bite in the first place. I have ALWAYS had a passion for reptiles....especially venomous. Non venomous doesn't interest me, but for the sake of myself I will need to get rid of the arrogence and LEARN to care for the animal. It doesn't take a genius to work out that a poorly cared for animal can result in a pissed off one......Resulting in all-sorts of incidents I have also been thinking about studying to become a Herpetologist specialising in Venomous reptiles and Crocodillians.....This will also help me learn, I am trying to establish a vuluntry job working in the herp section of the local Zoo to gain experience. I spoke to a friend of mine, Chris Law and he said....being a reptile specialist that it would be a tremendous idea and will really help boost confidence and abilities when working with professional Zoo handlers and staff. |
|
06-11-2009, 08:46 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Can I also say, you asked for a mentor.... You have to listen to what your being told for mentoring to work..... Your being told to get a non venomous and work your way up over numerous years, yet you don't seem to be listening.... |
|
06-11-2009, 10:48 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
A passion for reptiles
Dear Viper Lover,
May I quote from your last response (SE-morelia spotted the same remark and highlighted it so I think he is on the same track as me) Your wrote: "I have ALWAYS had a passion for reptiles....especially venomous. Non venomous doesn't interest me," What a statement! You have always had a passion for reptiles but by stating "especially venomous", you suggest some other reptiles interest you too, but then you go on to say nonvenomous snakes don't interest you. So what are the other reptiles that interest you I wonder. Reading on it seems to be crocodiles. This confirmed my fear that you are only interested in the species that can do you some damage, that your interest is not a genuine interest in reptiles in general. There are nonvenomous snakes just as fascinating, as difficult to breed, as brightly coloured, and bitey, and as rewarding, as any venomous snakes, but they don't interest you. Why not ? Probably because they cannot kill you. That is clearly what draws you to venomous snakes. Now I think any person who keeps or works with venomous snakes will have to agree that the adrenaline is part of the attraction, but only part, if it become the whole reason for keeping these snakes you may start trying to push the envelope, and ultimately that only leads to one thing. Stop, think, ask yourself honestly, why are you so keen to get into venomous snakes, and if your answer is as I suspect, that is the wrong reason entirely. Keeping venomous snakes may for some be the natural progression after years of keeping nonvenomous snakes. As the friend of StevetheSnake stated, 15 years experience with nonvenomous is a good period. I know at the tender age of 16, that time span feels like an eternity but you do not even want to consider a shorter span, say 5-10 years, of experience with nonvenomous snakes. Whatever the case you have to wait until you are 18 as stipulated by the DWAA but you should really wait until you have your own premises so you can do all construction of air-lock doors, internal phones, work surfaces and easy access but escape-proof cages, all the things necessary to make a secure snake room that will pass inspection. This is not cheap, the cheapest part are the snakes themselves. I am certain pocket money or even a weekend job will not finance the keeping of venomous snakes with all the additional costs, especially the insurance. You said there were younger siblings in the house. I think it should be noted that although private venomous snake keepers are bitten by their charges every single year in the UK, so far it has only been the keepers themselves who have been bitten. I know of no instance where a member of the family, visitor to the household or neighbour has been bitten. If there are youngsters in a household, with enquiring minds and fingers, then even more security is required to prevent a tragic accident, a forbidden door left ajar is a child magnet, and those bright green curly things on that branch look so cuddly! You really should shed the idea of keeping venomous snakes for quite a few years yet. Fine, get a voluntary job in a zoo but do not expect to be allowed to handle the venomous snakes in that collection. We have very strict protocols in our collection. Keepers are trained to "venomous assist" and that takes quite a while, then they train for "full venomous" and that takes even longer. Our dangerous snakes are categorised A-D based on how difficult they are to work with and keepers work their way up the scale to A, which is king cobra, Papuan taipan and would include black mamba if we kept them. No volunteers are allowed near the venomous snakes, not even into the hot room when venomous husbandry is being carried out (although they can watch through a window). Even fulltime staff, who are not venomous trained, are not allowed in. There is a sign over the outer door that is illuminated when such husbandry is taking place and persons are instructed to knock and wait, not even enter if they hold a key. I would imagine other collections in the UK have similarly strict protocols although I know collections overseas are less rigid about who is allowed around venomous snakes and no such rules govern private collections. I wondered about the goat serum. Where did that come from ? Most snakebite antivenom is raised on horses but in light of the unpleasant reactions (including blindness) that can be suffered by contact with equine-serums, some antivenoms are being raised on sheep, and funnel-back antivenom in Australia was raised on rabbits (at last, a use for flopsy, mopsy and cottontail has been found) but I was not aware of any goat serum. Are you sure you are not confusing antivenom with some sort of occult hallowe'en potion ! Good luck with your application for voluntary work, but one piece of advice there. Ask your mentors thought out questions and accept their answers as fact, they will be speaking from experience. Mark |
|
06-11-2009, 10:56 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
as a teenager of 17 years i would adore getting a venomous snake but i made a mental checlkist of snakes to get first( and to get out the parents house) i meana my next snake i plan to get is reknown to get a bit nippy but when i can care and handle that snake i will move onto something like a false water cobra or something of equal value. and the slowly intergrate myself with DWA animals. i estimate i'll be at least 27 before i get one of these animals. and i might be going to west midlands safari parks reptile department at some point to have a look at their lovely snakes and other reptiles.
|
 |
| Tags |
| dwa, keepers, reptiles, snakes, venomous |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Starting my RP collection | jackdcurz | Snakes | 12 | 29-10-2009 08:55 AM |
| Venomous Snake Collection At Osceola County Serpetarium (Florida) | Natonstan | Snakes | 2 | 08-09-2009 05:00 PM |
| Venomous snake I.D. | laura1486 | Snakes | 15 | 15-05-2009 11:12 PM |
| FINALLY starting up my collection again! | MissMoose | Spiders and Inverts | 24 | 11-04-2009 10:18 PM |
| Free venomous collection!! lol | Art_Gecko101 | DWA Species | 7 | 15-01-2008 01:41 PM |
..
Linear Mode
