Starting a Venomous snake collection.

[ralphee]

I think it best Viperlover heeds the sense that the "pro's" here preach, years of research, respect, and common sense here, is abound, even more so from Mr O' Shea and the other hot handlers.
I pray, you dont follow up this "fad" right now, at least, not for a good few years (maybe 10 or more) of keeping non venomous reptiles, that CAN still be unpredictable, even the soppiest of my Boa's have had a wobble now and then, but ya know what, its called "experience" and that, comes from getting years of it, under your belt.

Ive seen Cobra's in Thailand (snake farms, enough to make you puke as a snake lover, but hey, i guess they have to earn a living) that made me want to take them all home, but, these are VERY socially aware animals, they DO permanent damage to a human on envenomation. One just has to watch them figure things out, to realise the respect they command, at every minute, of every day!

In my very late teens, i was offered a White Lipped Viper, and i have to admit, this was a very tempting offer with me young, dumb and fulla.....ahem, anyhoo, my peers, made me see sense, and realise, its not a bragging right, its a VERY large responsibility on soooo many levels.
Id have been breaking the law, and, putting my still lack of experience (even after 10 years of keeping Herps) at major peril. LISTEN TO THE GUYS ON HERE Viperlover, they know there onions!

A Boiga, will knock you flat on your butt too, these are very snappy, very unpredictable reptiles, that do require, quite a bit of maintenance, that maintenance, to a novice snake keeper, will result in multiple tags IMO, these things rock, but they are NOT a "pose" pet, do some reading on the Brown's in Guam!!!!!

Id say, if you truly love reptiles, you would be super proud, to own a Boa or Python, maybe a Carpet if you want a bit of attitude (gotta love 'em lol) that you can gain valuable experience with, hey, there are plenty of Elaphe out there too that would be super happy to rip you up some (if thats your bag) but then i guess, the true keeper, doesnt get tagged at all, so im a failure on that count

lee

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by Mark O'Shea

Dear Viper Lover,
May I quote from your last response (SE-morelia spotted the same remark and highlighted it so I think he is on the same track as me)

Your wrote: "I have ALWAYS had a passion for reptiles....especially venomous. Non venomous doesn't interest me,"

What a statement!
You have always had a passion for reptiles but by stating "especially venomous", you suggest some other reptiles interest you too, but then you go on to say nonvenomous snakes don't interest you. So what are the other reptiles that interest you I wonder. Reading on it seems to be crocodiles.
This confirmed my fear that you are only interested in the species that can do you some damage, that your interest is not a genuine interest in reptiles in general. There are nonvenomous snakes just as fascinating, as difficult to breed, as brightly coloured, and bitey, and as rewarding, as any venomous snakes, but they don't interest you. Why not ?
Probably because they cannot kill you. That is clearly what draws you to venomous snakes.

Now I think any person who keeps or works with venomous snakes will have to agree that the adrenaline is part of the attraction, but only part, if it become the whole reason for keeping these snakes you may start trying to push the envelope, and ultimately that only leads to one thing.

Stop, think, ask yourself honestly, why are you so keen to get into venomous snakes, and if your answer is as I suspect, that is the wrong reason entirely. Keeping venomous snakes may for some be the natural progression after years of keeping nonvenomous snakes. As the friend of StevetheSnake stated, 15 years experience with nonvenomous is a good period. I know at the tender age of 16, that time span feels like an eternity but you do not even want to consider a shorter span, say 5-10 years, of experience with nonvenomous snakes.

Whatever the case you have to wait until you are 18 as stipulated by the DWAA but you should really wait until you have your own premises so you can do all construction of air-lock doors, internal phones, work surfaces and easy access but escape-proof cages, all the things necessary to make a secure snake room that will pass inspection. This is not cheap, the cheapest part are the snakes themselves. I am certain pocket money or even a weekend job will not finance the keeping of venomous snakes with all the additional costs, especially the insurance.

You said there were younger siblings in the house. I think it should be noted that although private venomous snake keepers are bitten by their charges every single year in the UK, so far it has only been the keepers themselves who have been bitten. I know of no instance where a member of the family, visitor to the household or neighbour has been bitten. If there are youngsters in a household, with enquiring minds and fingers, then even more security is required to prevent a tragic accident, a forbidden door left ajar is a child magnet, and those bright green curly things on that branch look so cuddly!

You really should shed the idea of keeping venomous snakes for quite a few years yet. Fine, get a voluntary job in a zoo but do not expect to be allowed to handle the venomous snakes in that collection. We have very strict protocols in our collection. Keepers are trained to "venomous assist" and that takes quite a while, then they train for "full venomous" and that takes even longer. Our dangerous snakes are categorised A-D based on how difficult they are to work with and keepers work their way up the scale to A, which is king cobra, Papuan taipan and would include black mamba if we kept them. No volunteers are allowed near the venomous snakes, not even into the hot room when venomous husbandry is being carried out (although they can watch through a window). Even fulltime staff, who are not venomous trained, are not allowed in. There is a sign over the outer door that is illuminated when such husbandry is taking place and persons are instructed to knock and wait, not even enter if they hold a key. I would imagine other collections in the UK have similarly strict protocols although I know collections overseas are less rigid about who is allowed around venomous snakes and no such rules govern private collections.

I wondered about the goat serum. Where did that come from ?
Most snakebite antivenom is raised on horses but in light of the unpleasant reactions (including blindness) that can be suffered by contact with equine-serums, some antivenoms are being raised on sheep, and funnel-back antivenom in Australia was raised on rabbits (at last, a use for flopsy, mopsy and cottontail has been found) but I was not aware of any goat serum. Are you sure you are not confusing antivenom with some sort of occult hallowe'en potion !

Good luck with your application for voluntary work, but one piece of advice there. Ask your mentors thought out questions and accept their answers as fact, they will be speaking from experience.

Mark

I have been thinking about ytou're post, Mark. I will rephrase what I said...I do love ALL reptiles....But my main interests of research are Venomous and Crocodillians as I have much interest on Venom compounds and toxins....(I have ALLWAYS been a Science Geek)...

Introduceing a venomous species to my care would be a deffinate NO-GO for quite some time after reading closely what you'reself and the other keepers have posted. I have ALWAYS wanted a Reptile but my family were not willing to trust me untill now. I have always loved snakes in general and I have no desire for Adrenaline. I really need to start learning now about reptillians and to start working with the more docile species of animals of I EVER want to suceed in Herpetology. Venomous training will come much later and for that instance I am going to try and purchase something like a Corn snake or a Black Kingsnake and then move to the small constricters after a year or two of non-venomous experience.

[jasonkwong135]

Originally Posted by ViperLover

I have been thinking about ytou're post, Mark. I will rephrase what I said...I do love ALL reptiles....But my main interests of research are Venomous and Crocodillians as I have much interest on Venom compounds and toxins....(I have ALLWAYS been a Science Geek)...

Mark

It is a great honour to read the comment on such a great figure in the field (I have got Venomous Snakes of the World in my herp book collection). I admitt when I first got into snakes I have a crush on venomous myself as well, but that quickly subsided as I read all about the requirment for keeping them and the real danger that I will be facing.

Viperlover

If its is venom and toxin that you are interested in, keepinng a venomous snake is not nesscessary the way to go. what you want is chemistry and biology. You dont need to know how to handle a snake if you are studying snake venom, in fact most researcher using snake venom might not even see a snake before. all I m saying is, is the chemistry of the various proteins in the snake venom that you are interestering in, their structures, mechanism of functions that you should be interested in. and you can achieve these just by reading a lot. I m not against you of keeping a hot snake, as I said above I love hot snake as well but I love myself more .

good luck

Jason

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by jasonkwong135

Mark

It is a great honour to read the comment on such a great figure in the field (I have got Venomous Snakes of the World in my herp book collection). I admitt when I first got into snakes I have a crush on venomous myself as well, but that quickly subsided as I read all about the requirment for keeping them and the real danger that I will be facing.

Viperlover

If its is venom and toxin that you are interested in, keepinng a venomous snake is not nesscessary the way to go. what you want is chemistry and biology. You dont need to know how to handle a snake if you are studying snake venom, in fact most researcher using snake venom might not even see a snake before. all I m saying is, is the chemistry of the various proteins in the snake venom that you are interestering in, their structures, mechanism of functions that you should be interested in. and you can achieve these just by reading a lot. I m not against you of keeping a hot snake, as I said above I love hot snake as well but I love myself more .

good luck

Jason

Thankyou, Jason

But I like Venomous snakes aswell....and the science of Herpetology as I stated I want to establish my own collection in the far future.

I am not in this for an Adrenaline buzz...But to establish a professional and specialist hobby working with animals I enjoy researching. And possibly a career in Herpetology.

[Gaboon]

All good things come to those that wait, and study hard.

[pymn nice but dim]

Im sorry viperlover i dont mean to seem negative but have you put much or any thought into this, if you have never kept snakes nor had hands on experiance WHAT ON EARTH are you doing trying to start a venomous collection it would appear through out this thread you are digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.

i have very limited experiance with venomous (ive as much as seen them on the safe side of a viv)

i work with reptiles and have many friends who breed and keep extensive collections, and all of which say they wouldnt be prepared or ready to go through with keeping hot snakes.

you may as well say iv never boxed but im prepared to step in the ring with ali.

i dont mean to rant but please now that you have been told by the people who do keep hot and the likes of Mark O' shea telling just do your research, please....

just stop.
think.

and wait, in time you may well wish to consider it but right now your 16, you have no real experiance by your self a corn or royal learn about a snake then try a more aggressive species, but you have to understand there is no GOOD or STARTER species with venomous its life or death, your 16 i myself am only 18 and i know how recless and egotistical i can be.

its not a badge of honour to keep dwa it is a complete life style, and it can also be your death style.

i wish you the best of luck just slow down and be sensible.

[leecb0]

I held my first snake at 6 a grass snake i found near my home in kent i owned my first snake at 9 i garter snake (it was 1979) i moved up the ladder going fromcorns to ball pythons to rock pythons bloods etc then got into some hard to keep and rareish Sp i always loved venomous but never thought about actually keeping. I have been nailed by a lot of snakes and a few monitors but one thing i have always said to people is if you thing you are going to keep snakes and NEVER get bit then you are mistaken, anyway i first held my DWAL when i was 28 after nearly 20 years and handling hundreds of snakes including rear fang and i had some help from Mr J Foden.
In my opinion i think you are after the kudos of keeping such animals. I am a private collector and my collection whic includes many non venomous snakes like proberbly most DWAL holders is private i dont post what i have on forums and only a very select few people know what i keep its not a badge of honour or a rite of passage (unless the passage is to the next life) i have never been bitten by any of my collection due to strict protocols i employ but every day the risk is there. your comment on copperheads made me chuckle my copperhead is a real sod wont stay on the hook very unpradictable allways looks as if he wants to tag me.
Now i know you dont know who i or some of the hot keepers are on here who have tried to give you advice but Mark you do know of and his experience LISTEN TO HIM and dont try to BS people

[ViperLover]

Originally Posted by leecb0

I held my first snake at 6 a grass snake i found near my home in kent i owned my first snake at 9 i garter snake (it was 1979) i moved up the ladder going fromcorns to ball pythons to rock pythons bloods etc then got into some hard to keep and rareish Sp i always loved venomous but never thought about actually keeping. I have been nailed by a lot of snakes and a few monitors but one thing i have always said to people is if you thing you are going to keep snakes and NEVER get bit then you are mistaken, anyway i first held my DWAL when i was 28 after nearly 20 years and handling hundreds of snakes including rear fang and i had some help from Mr J Foden.
In my opinion i think you are after the kudos of keeping such animals. I am a private collector and my collection whic includes many non venomous snakes like proberbly most DWAL holders is private i dont post what i have on forums and only a very select few people know what i keep its not a badge of honour or a rite of passage (unless the passage is to the next life) i have never been bitten by any of my collection due to strict protocols i employ but every day the risk is there. your comment on copperheads made me chuckle my copperhead is a real sod wont stay on the hook very unpradictable allways looks as if he wants to tag me.
Now i know you dont know who i or some of the hot keepers are on here who have tried to give you advice but Mark you do know of and his experience LISTEN TO HIM and dont try to BS people

Thankyou for the advise guys....

I am thinking about starting at the bottom and working my way up. It just seems so long though

[hexem]

All things in life are worth waiting for
Just remember, the patience you learn from it will make you a much better keeper when it comes to venemous, and you will get respect for that, not in keeping the snakes themselves.

[SiUK]

My copperhead is nuts, it sits on a hook ok, but strikes at anything that moves, it bites hooks and itself in its haste to try and get me, I wouldnt say its unpredictable because I can always predict that the second it sees me it wants to hurt me