pygmy rattlesnakes?

[Agkistrodon]

Originally Posted by ermgravy

ok so i figure these will be dwa, my real question is would they make a suitable first dwa sp? I dont really have any interest in owning any other dwa animals in the slightest, well thats a lie bush viper are so beautiful! and full size rattlers but i wouldn't dream of keeping either with out years of experience. So could a pygmy rattler work for a first dwa snake? Id love to get one get a bit of experience then build up a breeding project, rattlesnakes absolutely fascinate me. anyone got any good reading material on husbandry of pygmy rattlers they can point me towards?
thanks for your time.
Nathan

Maybe we could get this thread back on topic...? I personally couldn't see any reason why anyone would just have to start tearing into Victor (I thought his advice seemed pretty sound) but ermgravy is asking for information about a venomous snake that he would like to keep and it'd probably be good idea if we gave him that to read through as opposed to just a page full of flaming - after all, someone's experiences could be the difference between the correct first venomous or incorrect for him - and that could be the difference between a serious accident and safety.

I used to keep a pair of dusky pygmies (s.m.barbouri), and I think you've made a decent choice as a starter tbh - I never really had any issues. In my experience, they're a good natured, manageable-sized snake. My male hooked like a dream, no problems whatsoever, however my female was a little more tricky, mainly down to a wierd weight distribution - she was HUGE for a pygmy, nearly 32" long and THICK. A lot of times I'd actually double-hook her just so she could balance a bit better, and when I started doing that it became much easier. I wouldn't recommend hooking and tailing personally - they're easily liftable with just one hook, and while these guy's don't have the explosive power that some of the bigger rattlers and gaboons and whatnot have, from feeding responses I know that they can be somewhat unpredictable strikers and are lightning quick and very accurate even over their own tail.

Never had any problems getting them to eat or anything, I'd seperate the male into a really useful box and they'd both strike feed on defrost, envenomating and then eating the "dead" prey off the ground. The female would bite and seek out her prey pretty quickly, whereas the male would faff around with it a LOT (at one point I waited for an hour for him to find and swallow a mouse that he'd bitten).

The one thing I did find is they seem to be very curious little snakes - they'd always extend themselves far off the ground to get a closer look at me whenever I went into their enclosure and when handling them on the floor or anything like that they didn't do the typical "snake thing" of bolting towards available cover - they'd move around and explore and check out everything interesting around them. Of course this could be dangerous as they seem to become so absolutely rapt with whatever they were exploring they'd be quite easy to surprise - they didn't seem to really have any fear of me at all until they got close enough to realise I was alive, and big, and therefore a potential predator, and they didn't have a problem with trying to get close enough, so be wary of that.

Other than that really there's not a whole lot more to say - as I've said, they seem to be relatively even tempered, simple to handle snakes, but obviously they are potentially fatal and the "even temperedness" of them is purely situational - I did have several situations where I found myself quite surprised, where I'd open the enclosure and the female would, upon seeing me, instantly throw three or four strikes towards my face. It was rare, but it's something you have to watch out for as it caught me by surprise even after owning them for nine months - luckily I kept myself at a safe distance. My male sometimes seemed so calm that it almost seemed like you could freehandle him (not that I did, or ever thought about it!) but then catch him on a bad day and he'd be all fangs and rattling.

I don't have a great deal of resources, but I always found venomousreptiles to be a good website to use, particularly this article: Captive Care & Breeding of the Red Pigmy it's in relation to the red pygmy, but a lot of things in it can be applied to duskies as well. Hope that helps - if you had any more questions I'd be more than willing to offer my two cents, and I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who's kept pygmies before. I also kept variable bush vipers for a short period of time as well, so I could pass on my experiences with those too as well if you were looking into them, although I'd recommend playing about with the pygmies a bit before keeping Atheris - I always found them a little more tricky to handle than most arboreal vipers, being that they seem to have a strong ability to climb but with a little bit less stability than my other arboreal, eyelash vipers. In fact, you're on the right track with pygmies IMO - the only way I can really describe Atheris handling is that they're built like and move like arboreal pygmy rattlers - secure in the trees but occasionally liable to play pendulum with your hook and fall about a bit.

Hope this helps!

[dunny1]

yeah ur right owzy his use of the n word was totally uncalled for. that should be a warning if u ask me. no racial slang allowed

[Agkistrodon]

Originally Posted by dunny1

yeah ur right owzy his use of the n word was totally uncalled for. that should be a warning if u ask me. no racial slang allowed

Report him if it bothers you that much? Let's get back to pygmies. So ermgravy, when are you planning on picking the pygmies up? Have you handled much in the way of venomous before?

[Owzy]

Originally Posted by Agkistrodon

Report him if it bothers you that much? Let's get back to pygmies. So ermgravy, when are you planning on picking the pygmies up? Have you handled much in the way of venomous before?

Mate I hate topics going wayward but it was clear from the op's post he has barely any knowledge of DWA animals, and at that stage you are more inclined to believe what you read without question, hence my concern this is a 16 year old troll regurgitating knowledge he has either found on the internet, seen on TV or just made up. Your information however definitely does come from experience and is not just googled.

I don't know if you read his first post over but the op didn't know if they were DWA so I doubt he will be picking any up soon. (Not being nasty here just answering your last question.) That's unless he decides to forget the paperwork & just crack on... but who would do something like that huh

Oh and unless his parents were massive Xmen fans I doubt his name is Victor... or Creed. That is the name of Sabretooth from it.

Anyway like you say enough off topic, I just wanted to explain why there was the outburst from me earlier. If he is real I will happily admit I was wrong.

[ermgravy]

Agkistrodon; thanks mate ur a complete star!

i only ask because ive been offered them 6 times now and im defo not qualified, if i wanted them that bad i would have them.... already, id just rather do my research first.

im from carolina originally so carolina flavor could be a nice touch in that respect. but really i just want to hear some of peoples experiences with them, and to get my head into some USEFUL reading material and work out if this sp could be a good idea for me.

as ive said to Agkistrodon in a pm this is earlly stages of research im not looking to jump into owning a potentially very dangerous animal, i want to research it, speak to people and take even maybe a couple of years over my final verdict on this idea. im just interested in rattlers they are not like other snakes...

the flame war is can i say ridiculous how old are yall? it was ok to a point but cheers for doing your best to get the thread closed.... if your not a mod? report the post, thats ur only duty as a forum member and certainly not to create the mess u have on this thread. if any mods do chance by this please can i get a clean up crew on all but the op and Agkistrodon 1st post? oh and this last paragraph? (i pay i cookies!)

[Owzy]

Originally Posted by ermgravy

Agkistrodon; thanks mate ur a complete star!

i only ask because ive been offered them 6 times now and im defo not qualified, if i wanted them that bad i would have them.... already, id just rather do my research first.

im from carolina originally so carolina flavor could be a nice touch in that respect. but really i just want to hear some of peoples experiences with them, and to get my head into some USEFUL reading material and work out if this sp could be a good idea for me.

as ive said to Agkistrodon in a pm this is earlly stages of research im not looking to jump into owning a potentially very dangerous animal, i want to research it, speak to people and take even maybe a couple of years over my final verdict on this idea. im just interested in rattlers they are not like other snakes...

the flame war is can i say ridiculous how old are yall? it was ok to a point but cheers for doing your best to get the thread closed.... if your not a mod? report the post, thats ur only duty as a forum member and certainly not to create the mess u have on this thread. if any mods do chance by this please can i get a clean up crew on all but the op and Agkistrodon 1st post? oh and this last paragraph? (i pay i cookies!)

That's fine mate but it was clear from your first post you have no idea what your doing so I thought I would call out the possible liar so you didn't listen to advise that could be written by someone who has less experience with venomous than you, that is, less than zero.

Perhaps I got carried away but your new to the forum so you don't understand how much this site gets plagued by fakes & liars... and this is RFUK... every thread goes off topic

[ermgravy]

Originally Posted by Owzy

That's fine mate but it was clear from your first post you have no idea what your doing so I thought I would call out the possible liar so you didn't listen to advise that could be written by someone who has less experience with venomous than you, that is, less than zero.

Perhaps I got carried away but your new to the forum so you don't understand how much this site gets plagued by fakes & liars... and this is RFUK... every thread goes off topic

im hardly new nor do i not know wahgwan.... but how are you any better than said poster if all ur accusations are indeed true? there is no need to make posts of that nature in a thread ur not the op of? MY choice on my thread....

ive lurked here for a long while mate longer than ive held an account for years. ive been a very active forum poster on mfk and some other huge forums, u always will get scrub replys but to call someone out when you your self make reference to taking adders from the wild with out license? and u think you deserve the time of day? if i where mod guess whos ip addy gets sent to defra the troll or the guy who admits breaking the law?

[Owzy]

Originally Posted by ermgravy

im hardly new nor do i not know wahgwan.... but how are you any better than said poster if all ur accusations are indeed true? there is no need to make posts of that nature in a thread ur not the op of? MY choice on my thread....

ive lurked here for a long while mate longer than ive held an account for years. ive been a very active forum poster on mfk and some other huge forums, u always will get scrub replys but to call someone out when you your self make reference to taking adders from the wild with out license? and u think you deserve the time of day? if i where mod guess whos ip addy gets sent to defra the troll or the guy who admits breaking the law?

You have proved my point for me, as I pointed out on the other post, you clearly don't have a clue, or much of an IQ it seems.

[ermgravy]

Originally Posted by Owzy

You have proved my point for me, as I pointed out on the other post, you clearly don't have a clue, or much of an IQ it seems.

how do you work that out? ive been in court over a pic posted on a forum mate so have first hand experiance of forum posts being taking the wrong why but how is it me that needs the IQ check? You ruffled my feathers then posted something that could easily be missintreperated, and if u did mean you went to take pics of adders fair one, but how would taking pics of a wild venomous snake or practising your handiling on one really help a newbie? i didnt realise dwa keeping was such a light hearted affair? few adder pics and you get ya license is it? that last paragraph i write in good jehst, im just trying to settle the air and explain why i snapped to that conclusion... if you want to continue this petty feud go ahead but i cant be fridged.... im dyslexic, i write in txt type and have a shocking keyboard and occasionally miss the odd letter hardly need an iq check mate based on that or do i?

[Owzy]

Originally Posted by ermgravy

how do you work that out? ive been in court over a pic posted on a forum mate so have first hand experiance of forum posts being taking the wrong why but how is it me that needs the IQ check? You ruffled my feathers then posted something that could easily be missintreperated, and if u did mean you went to take pics of adders fair one, but how would taking pics of a wild venomous snake or practising your handiling on one really help a newbie? i didnt realise dwa keeping was such a light hearted affair? few adder pics and you get ya license is it? that last paragraph i write in good jehst, im just trying to settle the air and explain why i snapped to that conclusion... if you want to continue this petty feud go ahead but i cant be fridged.... im dyslexic, i write in txt type and have a shocking keyboard and occasionally miss the odd letter hardly need an iq check mate based on that or do i?

No I know very clever people who can't type, it was what you said not the way you said it.

And that is exactly what I meant yes, I found them, practiced a small amount of handling, took pictures of them then let them go. I was safe about it and have never revealed my adder site to anyone but one very trusted friend. No one likes argument and it seems we both have some backtracking to do, which brings me nicely onto Victor....

I have been informed by a mate you in fact a real person so I am sorry. Happily admit I am wrong... it is very strange how similar your writing & forum behavior is to the lad I was accusing you of being is though, and he has done it many times before.. but that's no excuse. Hope you can forgive my aggressiveness.

Though you are a bit nuts whoever you are