'Monkeys in the Shop Window!'

[bosshogg]

Originally Posted by glidergirl

A shop not too far away from us was selling marmosets and set ups. The set up consisted of a hamster cage! The buyer was told that this cage would be adequate for the rest of the animals life!

well that sums it up really, in a pet shop you cant really vet your owners at least with Nerys and Rory they really do want a good home i would prefer that primates were sold privately also i know the advice i am going to get is good advice and not just a shop wanting to make a quick buck.

Bevis why cant pet shops have pets

[martin day]

the only places primates should be is in zoos who have more than enough space to fit there needs but most of all in the wild, haveing them in home cages or selling them in shops is all wrong in my eyes

[auwa44]

Originally Posted by martin day

the only places primates should be is in zoos who have more than enough space to fit there needs but most of all in the wild, haveing them in home cages or selling them in shops is all wrong in my eyes

Totally agree

[Plutino]

edited
er, n/m

[Zak]

Originally Posted by martin day

the only places primates should be is in zoos who have more than enough space to fit there needs but most of all in the wild, haveing them in home cages or selling them in shops is all wrong in my eyes

So what if say i was a multi-millionaire and wanted a colony of monkeys and could set aside hundreds of thousands of £'s and hire specialist keepers to look after them? Is that not what a zoo does anyway, but infact with a bigger budget. Also there would be no chance of visitor induced stress on the animals and there wouldn't be numptys throwing them food, shouting at them etc.

In terms of the wild - we're destroying it as it is, whats wrong with specialist keepers preserving species and aiding to breeding programmes?

I dont think primate keeping is as black and white as you make it out.

[bevis892]

it was about 18 months-2 years ago. it might sound like but im not having a go against you, i think your aims are good and well intended and if you do home checks now then well done to you because not enough people do.personaly i think you are a very knowledgable fella,why dont you as a highly respected person in the animal trade use these sites as a powerful tool to help and educate other keepers/sellers rather than critacise what other people do.
what i am noticing on alot of these sites now is that animal suppliers/keepers/breeders etc are starting to sound anti keeping when in reality you are all for keeping animals but in the correct way which in this day and age is great. i just wish these sites were not so political as theres enough of that going on anyway.
i hope this makes sense and you understand what im trying to get across.

[TSKA Rory Matier]

Originally Posted by bevis892

it was about 18 months-2 years ago. it might sound like but im not having a go against you, i think your aims are good and well intended and if you do home checks now then well done to you because not enough people do.personaly i think you are a very knowledgable fella,why dont you as a highly respected person in the animal trade use these sites as a powerful tool to help and educate other keepers/sellers rather than critacise what other people do.
what i am noticing on alot of these sites now is that animal suppliers/keepers/breeders etc are starting to sound anti keeping when in reality you are all for keeping animals but in the correct way which in this day and age is great. i just wish these sites were not so political as theres enough of that going on anyway.
i hope this makes sense and you understand what im trying to get across.

Hi Bevis,

I will probably get slammed for what l write now, by those who normally slam into me anyway, but hey ho.

Every keeper alive, has the ability to make mistakes during their time as a keeper, it is part and parcel of the learning curve. I have made mistakes myself as a keeper as l am sure many others have, but the beauty of the learning curve is that in order to correct the errors - you must learn and move onwards with that knowledge.

Now the same application can be used with the political side of the industry. We all learn as we go on as keepers or as speakers.

In addition to that, as keepers or speakers we change.

I have changed enormously in the last five years in so far as my political outlook, in so far as my views on keeping animals. In the last twelve months l have learned more politically, am more involved with the understanding of legislation. But in so doing, keepers also must understand the arguments against them from the opposition. To understand the ‘enemy’ is to understand how to succeed.

So now, l tend to not look at things from the militant that we were accused of last year by many, both those in favour of that stance as well as those who were against it.

This forum, proved to me to be many things, for at the end of the day this forum is made up of keepers, and forgive the phrase - but it is comprised of the ’good, the bad and the ugly’, but it is made up of the people.
Now it is the people or in our case, the keepers that matter, for it is down to them to believe or not believe, it is down to them to accept or decline what is going on.

My views on primates alone in the last two years have changed dramatically, l am for the keeping of primates by specialist keepers, and by this l mean those that do everything within their powers and abilities to ensure that their charges are maintained to the highest degree. I am against those keepers who insist on keeping their animals in this case primates, in poorer conditions and those who refuse to research into what affects they may be incurring upon their animals.

In many ways, l can see what the opposition is saying, and l can understand their opinions.

Two years ago l was a different seller on primates, two years later l am a harder and more stricter seller on primates, and it does not earn me a good reputation by primate keepers.

We try and encourage viewers into readers and readers into writers and writers into speakers and speakers into pro activity.

These sites where upon we are seen as writers of scare mongering, fear mongering and criticism serve the keeper markets. So these sites are used, to the best of our ability.

But we who believe in what can happen are viewed as the black sheep amongst a white herd following.

More and more keepers are beginning to sound anti keeping when in reality they are not, this is a truth statement, but sadly, the legislation and the politics within our market demand this to be the way, for the opposition are relentless in their attacks and will not cease till they believe they have won.

Politics in forums like this have only just started to be accepted, for four years ago, this would not have held much response. RFUK has a lot to be proud of, for l know of three other forums that now not only host political speak but open sections for it, and l say bravo to them, well done.

Whether we like it or not, political legislation is here to stay and it will be in our faces for a long period to come. We can not continue to deny its presence.

Hope this helps
Rory Matier

[brittone05]

Originally Posted by bevis892

use these sites as a powerful tool to help and educate other keepers/sellers rather than critacise what other people do.

I beleive you will find it a very rare occurrence that Rory "critisises" other keepers publicly - especially on this forum.

There has been one instance where he has washed his hands of a member who continually asked and asked for advice and then totally disregarded it all - would you not feel slightly peeved that your time had been wasted?

There are also many of us who will critisise people - if I hear of someone housing a lone meerkat in thier living room or a lone marmoset in a parrot cage, yes I do openly and publicly state that I think it is irrespinsible and downright wrong. It is keepers like this who offer ammunition to anti keeping groups and it is ultimately the anit keeping groups who will have a hand in the demise of exptics keeping.

I fully support Rory in his stand to say we NEED Codes of Practice - the sooner the better because this will be a foothold to show the seriousness of our keepers and that we are not afraid to follow sensible guidelines to ensure the wellbeing of our charges. It is just a shame that more people do not support the COP's openly as, right now, they seem to be the best way forward for keepers

[skyfox]

theres no answer to the question all you do is go round in circle/s at the end of the day its up to that person if they want to keep an animal and care for it, as for the specialiast keeper, on here who wrote the thread just talk to a brick wall ,its never going change peoples minds who want an animal /pet its up to them were they buy or get them from not to be told that the only place you can get them from is you

[TSKA Rory Matier]

Originally Posted by skyfox

theres no answer to the question all you do is go round in circle/s at the end of the day its up to that person if they want to keep an animal and care for it, as for the specialiast keeper, on here who wrote the thread just talk to a brick wall ,its never going change peoples minds who want an animal /pet its up to them were they buy or get them from not to be told that the only place you can get them from is you

Skyfox,

I do not recall asking keepers to buy from me in this thread or in any thread l have submitted.

I have advertised on this forum, like others also have, but do not coerce sales.

Keepers have the freedom to purchase their livestocks from whom they choose.

This thread was around primates being sold in the shop window.

And whilst you are correct in 90% of your post, the final 10% is incorrect:

"animal /pet its up to them were they buy or get them from not to be told that the only place you can get them from is you"

Not guilty here thankyou.

R