Phoenix worm breeding caresheet..

[GeckoMorphs]

Originally Posted by LoveForLizards

Raaaaaawr! Lol

Here ya go, just tried this and it worked out pretty well:

1 cup - instant oats
1 cup - bran or wheat
Half cup - baked, grated/blended veggies
2 TBSP - honey
1/3 cup - boiled, extremely fine cut or blended cooked meats
1 cup - rice puffs

Mix everything together in a bowl and add boiling water until the mix is in a cookie dough consistency, make into small cubes/balls and put on a baking tray, bake in the oven on 225C until golden-brown, turn oven off and leave in oven until cold so they harden up, use instant oats as a substrate and just place this ontop for the larvae to eat. Also I forgot to add, if anybody wants to try breeding phoenix worms and has a rabbit - use rabbit poop for substrate/food.

63 minutes! You lose! Only joking.
I guess that may well be worth a try. Can't beleive how much they cost to buy considering what they are.

Looking forward to hearing how people get on with the breeding efforts.

[Blaptica]

Have you (loveforlizards) managed to breed them repeatly using the method you describe ? I bred them last year in good quantities using quite a different method. At times I was harvesting a pint volume quantity a day. This is after experimenting with them for two years

Before anybody suggests making this "sticky" I sugest you try it. I am guessing nobody else will have suceeded following this method, since in my opinion there is a couple of very serious mistakes in the suggested method.

If you think I being over cynical, if its that easy why are they still being imported from the US, and why are they so expensive?? !! Wouldn't one of the many livefood companies be breeding them and selling them at a price comparable to the more commonly available livefood ?

[GeckoMorphs]

What have you had success doing then?

Originally Posted by Blaptica

Have you (loveforlizards) managed to breed them repeatly using the method you describe ? I bred them last year in good quantities using quite a different method. At times I was harvesting a pint volume quantity a day. This is after experimenting with them for two years

Before anybody suggests making this "sticky" I sugest you try it. I am guessing nobody else will have suceeded following this method, since in my opinion there is a couple of very serious mistakes in the suggested method.

If you think I being over cynical, if its that easy why are they still being imported from the US, and why are they so expensive?? !! Wouldn't one of the many livefood companies be breeding them and selling them at a price comparable to the more commonly available livefood ?

[LoveForLizards]

Yes please do tell

I used this method for a year and was harvesting every few days, dont ask me how much as it was all put into a bucket and given to a local petstore, I don't use them so it was just purely an experiment and thats how I found worked. *shrugs*

[LoveForLizards]

Originally Posted by Blaptica

If you think I being over cynical, if its that easy why are they still being imported from the US, and why are they so expensive?? !! Wouldn't one of the many livefood companies be breeding them and selling them at a price comparable to the more commonly available livefood ?

Not a clue, I just found this worked well for me so decided to post it up as there appeared to be some interest in these as feeders!

[Blaptica]

I make my living in the reptile trade and breed alot of reptiles (mainly lizards). I breed all of my own live food for my breeder lizards. I started experimenting with soldier flies because they potentially are the most productive livefood available. That is because they have a very quick life cycle (typical with flies) and productive, very high numbers of eggs in a short time. Typically up to 900 apparently, in around 9 days before they die. That is the good news.

The bad news is that they are difficult to breed in captivity compared to crickets, mealworms, giant mealworms, locusts or any other commercially available breeder insect. That is why they are so expensive. I am planning this year to increase production to the point where they could be hopefully available commercially in the Uk at more reasonable prices. That is the plan anyhow. It might take a couple of years to get right or I might fail to breed them in suffient quanties, only time will tell. So sorry, but for commercial reasons I am not going to explain how I do it. But what I will say is that I think that breeding them is not practical for hobby reptile keepers. I had to spend quite a lot of money investing in a set up to get my pint a day ! I will need to spend a lot lot more to do it commercially.

One thing I will say though is about the temps required for the flies to breed. The man who is behind the Trade marked "phoenix worm" spent many years while working at a university researching this fly. He wrote several papers about it which I have. He states that he only ever saw flies mating at temperatures at 28c or above. This backs up what I have found. They will even breed well with temperatures up to 40c. This species is naturally found in warm climates ! So I am mystified when I read at the beginning of this thread that the flies breed at 12-15c. In my experience this is not possible.

Also I have some pet donkeys which produce alot of manure. I would imagine this manure is very similiar to horse manure. But soldier flies show no interest in it whatsoever. But they will breed in pig, chicken or even human manure apparently. I think that they only show interest in the manure of species with a high protein content in the diet (= high nitrogen levels in the manure). Therefore I doubt they will show any interest in any equine manure

[moonstruck]

I thought this was a very good thread. But i'm now totally confused.

If it's so difficult, why has loveforlizards suceeded for a year?

Can I ask if your both actually using "phoenix worms" or one just using "black soldier flys larvae"

I do know they are the same thing, but phoenix worms come from a particular company, so will be kept in particular conditions... could that actually affect things so greatly?

[LoveForLizards]

Yes, I am confused aswell. I found they bred better at lower temperatures (under 20C) :S

I have been breeding black soldier flys (the larvae commonly called Phoenix Worms)

[moonstruck]

"phoenix worms" is a company trademark name thingy of some sort isn't it?

so, phoenix worm, refers to a black soldier fly larvae from a particular company... they are supposed to be bred in special highly nutritional ways....

if your breeding black soldier fly larvae which are not from that company, it *might* give some sort of explanation - that companys could be accustomed to certain conditions

[LoveForLizards]

I don't know! I was always told that Black Soldier Fly larvae was Phoenix Worms? At least thats what the rep. breeder said? Either way, Phoenix worms or not, black soldier fly larvae seem to be a good live food for smal lizards Lol.