Killing Feeder Anoles Humanely?

[Grond]

Originally Posted by Ron Magpie

The problem with hognoses- and some other snakes- is that their 'natural' food isn't rodents, it's lizards. Hence the original query. Some snakes of this group, especially young ones, are really reluctant to take mice. Thats why the question, but also why the answer- if it smells like lizard, it MUST be lizard LOL

I agree that scenting works, and is an easier option.

I just find it strange that people(not necessarily yourself) are happy for mice to be killed for food, but not for lizards.

There is no distinction apart from personal perception and common practice.

[toad650]

If you are going to end up starting a breeding colony of anoles you better start soon as baby anoles are tiny n you'll prob need to leave them a year to grow to any decent size, 1 female will produce 4-6 eggs a year i spose and even then you've got a month or so to wait for them to be laid n another couple to wait for them to hatch so it will be a big project to get started

[Grond]

Originally Posted by toad650

If you are going to end up starting a breeding colony of anoles you better start soon as baby anoles are tiny n you'll prob need to leave them a year to grow to any decent size, 1 female will produce 4-6 eggs a year i spose and even then you've got a month or so to wait for them to be laid n another couple to wait for them to hatch so it will be a big project to get started

This is the biggest hurdle to using them as feeders! They are not as easy to breed as mice!

[Ssthisto]

Another potential trick you can use is sticking shed lizard skin to the mice - it's like scenting-squared.

[Blaptica]

The idea of breeding enough anoles to feed a snake to me is a non stater. You would need numerous enclosures to hold various age anoles. They only normally produce one egg in each clutch ! They grow quite slowly. You would end up spending most of your time working with the the anoles, not the reptiles you wanted to keep.

It seems daft to try to keep a snake that has this problem when there is so many other species you could be keeping.

Whay about isoflurane to kill lizards? Freezing is about as cruel as you can do it.

[Ssthisto]

Isoflurane wouldn't be a likely possibility for two reasons:

1. In the UK it's a Prescription Only Medication (i.e. without a prescription by a doctor you cannot obtain it).
2. It would run the risk of anaesthetising or euthanising the snake that consumed the lizard too.

And if Paulusworm doesn't keep the snake, what's to be done with it? It's not going to magically start eating rodents right off the bat for someone else, is it? This snake is *already* in captivity, and just needs a bit of patience, time and work to get it going. Some of that work might not be very nice, but there we are, that's what happens when you keep carnivorous pets.

[Reaper941]

I want an Anole as a pet. You want to nom one.

[Blaptica]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Isoflurane wouldn't be a likely possibility for two reasons:

1. In the UK it's a Prescription Only Medication (i.e. without a prescription by a doctor you cannot obtain it).
2. It would run the risk of anaesthetising or euthanising the snake that consumed the lizard too.

And if Paulusworm doesn't keep the snake, what's to be done with it? It's not going to magically start eating rodents right off the bat for someone else, is it? This snake is *already* in captivity, and just needs a bit of patience, time and work to get it going. Some of that work might not be very nice, but there we are, that's what happens when you keep carnivorous pets.

1 Why can't a vet give you a prescription for it ? If you explain what you want it for i.e the humane killing of rodents/lizards as feeders, then they may supply it. In my view its much more humane than co2.

2 There is no problem with snakes eating the resulting mice. The drug seems to naturally leave the body quickly whem exposed to fresh air. Certainly in my experience no harm is done to the the snake is fed a mouse killed several hours earlier, let alone ones that have been in the freezer for a few weeks ! I have been using isoflorane for that use for several years with no problems. I got it from a UK vet.

I wouldn't risk getting a snake that I knew would naturally eat lizards and may not take to more convenient foods. It doesn't seem to be a sensible thing to do.

[Ron Magpie]

Originally Posted by Grond

I agree that scenting works, and is an easier option.

I just find it strange that people(not necessarily yourself) are happy for mice to be killed for food, but not for lizards.

There is no distinction apart from personal perception and common practice.

It's not especially a moral pont, just that mice are freely available ready-frozen for the trade, rather than imported as pets.

[Paulusworm]

Sorry for not replying sooner. Been a little busy.

I'm looking at starting a feeder colony of Anoles because, in a year or so, I intend to start breeding the snake species in question. Their primary natural prey is lizard and being from Madagascar that will probably be Day Geckos or similar. I'm looking for an alternative prey for the youngsters when the snake breeding starts. The youngsters will be programed to eat lizard after they hatch so I will need to have something in place when the time comes in order to start weaning them over to defrost rodents before selling them.

I have been given advice on a few alternative methods which I intend to try before purchasing any lizards for scenting or feeding.

I raised the question as I want to ensure that if I do have to use lizards they are killed as humanely as possible. Up until the point when they are killed I will ensure that they will have the best life I can give them. I believe that all animals should have this before they end up on my plate so all of my feeder colonies are treated in that way as well.