Betta fighting fish

[Frase]

hmm i am not sure, iw as not comfortable reading and seeing the combat pictures MYSELF but that is my opinion. I also cannot comment on the law side of this issue. What I can say is, i have seen so many BEAUTIFUL specimens come from andy and sweetcorns batches, that if they can produce that quality without going to these lengths you've been advised to, i would have a word and see if you cannot be guided by them. The betta's this pair produce are outstanding i really do have to say and I only wish i were closer to them and had space and money to buy some off of them!

Matt

[jordkil]

I think I may see about that thank you. I dont get some sort if sick kick out of watching two animals fight. What I do get is some amazing pictures of the array of colours of the the betta in a light that you do not normally see. I've never lost a fish from doing this I dont let it get to lengths that they do in betting houses in thailand I only do it for mere minutes while they go for hours and hours on end until they are so tired they cant fight any longer. I just put them in together to flare a bit tail bat and there are sometimes a few bites but no serious damage.

[Frase]

I wasnt trying to insinuate you were doing it for pleasure. Was just trying to show you that these result you are after can be attained doing things diffrently and not giving fish quite so much stress.

Have a look on Andys Website, he has great pictures of his bettas without doing these sorts of things. Like i said, have a word, i know he came across a bit angry but he and sweetcorn are both thoroughly nice people and are just passionate about betta's. I hope you can understand why he was so angry at these things. By gones by gones water under bridge and healthy fish all round eh?

[jordkil]

Dont worry I wasnt having a go either. I can thoroughly understand why he was angry. I would of reacted the same if it is something like dog fighting which i am passionatly against.

[andy007]

Male wild bettas, which are very very different to the Bettas we see here, are solitary animals. They stake a territory out and wait for a female to come by. If a male approaches their territory there may be aggression. However, in a paddy field of 10's of thousands of gallons of water, either male can swim away. In a tiny cup they dont have that option, its not natural.
The bettas that are used for fighting in Thailand are far removed from shop bought VT's etc... which are not built for fighting.
There is absolutely no need to "fight" males for breeding purposes and is a flawed technique as you should be looking for the male that has the best body and fin shape. The male and female should also complement eachother in tailtype and colour, otherwise you end up with mutts.
In nature, its the male that attracts the female with its display that gets to spawn.
Even if you are watching the 2 males together, it takes a second for one to rip the others eye out! They are all different and each have their own attack method. Some target eyes, some target the body etc etc...
Whilst i am dead against betta fighting, i understand the reasons why the Asian farmers started it. They didn't start it for breeding purposes, they started it to earn much needed money, heck even the then King of Siam was involved. The problem is, people started to exploit the tradition. People used bettas to fight to make big profits. Betting rings are big business in the USA, run by crooks basically. Any fish that doesn't meet the mark is promptly flushed down the pan.
Before setting out on breeding anything, much research should be conducted rather than taking the word of one person on the other side of the world.

[daftlassieEmma]

i wondered what you'd make of it Andy, my Dad's got an ancient (by which i mean, black and white and so dusty it makes your eyes water) book on fish breeding and one of the methods described for fighters was to have two males fight each other to determine the better for spawning

[Sweetcorn]

The thing is that spawning is very stressful for both male and female. They have to be well conditioned for 2 weeks before hand so they are both at the best condition possible to breed. I've lost a beautiful male within hours of spawning due to stress so by putting an already stressed and nipped male in with the female you are increasing the chances of losing the male and you also don't want a hugely aggressive male in with your female either.

We currently have a gorgeous male who is so gentle with the female he spawns with. He doesn't need to be fighting before hand or wound up in any way!!!

[Esfa]

I concur with Andy and Sweetcorn.

You could also get great photos of the males flaring by putting a mirror in front of them - no damage done!