Put an end to WC and CF Reps - yes or no

[sharpstrain]

Originally Posted by boidae

if they die of parasites here then wouldnt they die in the wild with them.
there usually imported before their first sheds. so food wise its not a problem untill sold.

they have an increased survival being in captivity rather than left in the wild.

as soon as you get a new animal, vet hem. what can go wrong?

ball pythons are born non feeders in the wild too.

I think a really interesting argument - but

In the wild they also woud not have to compete with the stress of poor captivity and shipment

they would not be kept in close proximity to thousands of other snakes increasing the spread of parasites and disease

would they ?

[boidae]

Originally Posted by sharpstrain

I think a really interesting argument - but

In the wild they also woud not have to compete with the stress of poor captivity and shipment

they would not be kept in close proximity to thousands of other snakes increasing the spread of parasites and disease

would they ?

there not actually kept in close proximity with other snakes unless the owner does so, that is inhumane if they do.

you being thought of as a predator by them would cause more stress handling them than them being put in blanked out boxes or bags for transport.

heat will cause bad health too in transit but well.. if the importer wants sales all he can do is get it right.

retailers quaranteen the animals not the importers. this saves time in importing them reducing stress further.

[royalnking]

I haven't voted as none of the options really give my views.

I don't disagree with CF and WC reps persay, as there is a need in some cases for both, but I do disagree with them being in shops and classified ads for sale to the general public and new keepers.

IMO

WC should only be imported to order i.e. someone needs new blood in their breeding then they would have them ordered and caught. The breeder knows what they are getting and will have the experience to cope with it, the animal is not sat around waiting for a buyer as it already has one.

CF I understand the ecological/economic benefits to the particular country that farms these animals, but what about our breeders in this country, who cannot compete with the low price of the cf ones. Well as the old saying goes "charity begins at home".

[wohic]

Originally Posted by boidae

if they die of parasites here then wouldnt they die in the wild with them.
there usually imported before their first sheds. so food wise its not a problem untill sold.

they have an increased survival being in captivity rather than left in the wild.

as soon as you get a new animal, vet hem. what can go wrong?

ball pythons are born non feeders in the wild too.

when something is brought to a new country with that comes a whole host of new problems, bacteria, virus' parasites that are all forgien to them (have you heard the pocahontas story ? ) they have no natural immunity so this causes yey more problems to an already stressed snake

Originally Posted by boidae

there not actually kept in close proximity with other snakes unless the owner does so, that is inhumane if they do.

you being thought of as a predator by them would cause more stress handling them than them being put in blanked out boxes or bags for transport.

heat will cause bad health too in transit but well.. if the importer wants sales all he can do is get it right.

retailers quaranteen the animals not the importers. this saves time in importing them reducing stress further.

When they are collected up to be sold they are put in boxes/bags of many animals all cramped together passing on each others illness' they can stay like this for weeks before being unloaded


Quarinteen ....... mmmm so many retailers do not though, my argument is with the low end such as royals , certain geckos and lizards that are sold for just a few pounds in shops or to people wanting to make a few quid. I know for a fact the CF royals are bought paid for and sold on the same day by at least two members on here ..let alone the many dozen other traders on here.

I could go on for ever but while reptiles are seen as a disposable consumer item that cann be bought for a few pence and sold for a few pounds withing hours nothing will change.

Just one thing though ........... If importing is so safe, where are all the imports ?

[Graz]

i think that some exceptions are ok, things such as royal pythons and other common reptiles shouldnt be imported as there is no need for them

[snickers]

The saddest thing about Royals is that they are touted as a good beginner snake.
But a wc/cf royal is anything but a good beginner snake. We could help by suggesting that ONLY cb royals are good beginner snakes, but unscrupulous people will just sell their wc/cf animals as cb.

A better thing would be for people to stop touting royals as beginner snakes altogether.

[boidae]

all thats needed is for them go from impoter to retailer or breeder, they can quaranteen them and vet them to good captive bred style conditions ready for a beginner keepers.

thats really all thats needed to benifit both private buyer and animal.

[sparkle]

Originally Posted by snickers

The saddest thing about Royals is that they are touted as a good beginner snake.
But a wc/cf royal is anything but a good beginner snake. We could help by suggesting that ONLY cb royals are good beginner snakes, but unscrupulous people will just sell their wc/cf animals as cb.

A better thing would be for people to stop touting royals as beginner snakes altogether.

thats the sad thing no CF/WC animal is a good beginner

I kept a few snakes and a few agamas whilst house sharing in england years back... we all got on fine and didnt have the internet to make us want more.. and lok for ways to get them cheaper etc,

i find people who arent on forums usually only have a few reptiles.. but for some reason forum dynamics cause people to want more and more...

and look for cheap ways of obtaining that.. there cant be amarket without a demand which is why earlier in this thread iw as trying to say we need to look at WHY we want cf/wc and maybe change ourselves first

[royalnking]

Originally Posted by boidae

all thats needed is for them go from impoter to retailer or breeder, they can quaranteen them and vet them to good captive bred style conditions ready for a beginner keepers.

thats really all thats needed to benifit both private buyer and animal.

No they should then breed them and sell the captive bred babies to beginners

[jesuslovestheladies]

to be annoied about losing CF/WC royals is BS. anyone who knows reptiles knows the concequences that come along with WC/CF. End of discussion.changing it is a differnt matter.

back on to the thread..

sparkle i dont mean to side with the negative critisicim thats mounting up against you but your comments are also starting to annoy me now.

i myself enjoy animals, i dont enjoy keeping animals, to me that part is just mither, how ever what i do enjoy is the ease of access to be able to view an animal in a simulated naturalistic envrioment within my own home, and forums such as this one allow me to get hold of animals that many people consider minority species or 'specialist'.

ill be one of the few to admit that before i new the internet as such my standard of animal husbandry was quite crap, how ever, the ability to converse with other keepers and to use websites has broadend my knowledge of my animals natural habitats and allowed me to replicate that within the home vivaria.

and boidae, not to pick arguments with you as youve been posting some pretty good arguments on this thread but yes a royal has a better chance of survival in captivity than in the wild, but at the same time, it will also not have a chance of producing a new generation of its own for its native population, which is a bad effect.