Dont you think this has gone on long enough?

[Meko]

Originally Posted by sparkle

well you will need to go after Meko... I have offered him first dibs..as a peace offering.. I do love Mr grumpy pants really

but see above for the cakes on offer,

its either that or chocolate gateux

noma noma

i'll have the top one.

you're ok yourself, you just type far too much for me to be bothered reading sometimes

[sparkle]

Originally Posted by Meko

i'll have the top one.

you're ok yourself, you just type far too much for me to be bothered reading sometimes

thats my tactic.. hehe

it works eh




god i love a man that argues back with me

you can have the top one my darling... always

[Meko]

Originally Posted by sparkle

then dont question me... YOU questioned me.. YOU invited a response is that too difficult for you to accept or understand.. nice how when others are putting across the same view as myself about it being legal and moral to treat sick animals,now youre calming down.. or did you think EVERYONE would agree with you meko....

seems now i have a genuine arguement against YOUR ramblings babe ... you cant quite cope with answering back.. but hey thats what happens when youre arguementative like you and I Meko.. once the other side has given several valid points it stops being an arguement and starts being a debate...

so lets keep it simple..

you dont have the cash then dont have the animals..
legally and morally it is your responsibility to care for them .. if they are sick OR well

there was that simple enough chicken.. and I am not the only one on this thread stating that..

there are various viewpoints on this thread.. just because ours differ does not make you a bad keeper or person... so dont take it personally just consider both sides..

our opinions didn't differ.. you just edited your post after i replied to a part of it and then went off on one..
My response was that you don't always buy something without not having the money and can't be expected to get shut just because you've hit the shits and lost your job. Therefore you the 'don't deserve to own an animal' isn't a fair comment. People shouldn't be buying animals if they don't have the money to care for them but nobody knows whats going to happen x years down the line.

[sparkle]

Originally Posted by Meko

our opinions didn't differ.. you just edited your post after i replied to a part of it and then went off on one..
My response was that you don't always buy something without not having the money and can't be expected to get shut just because you've hit the shits and lost your job. Therefore you the 'don't deserve to own an animal' isn't a fair comment. People shouldn't be buying animals if they don't have the money to care for them but nobody knows whats going to happen x years down the line.

of course things change i have been subject to that therefore i rehomed someanimals to make 100% sure i had extra cash for vet bills for the remaining ones..

a water dragon and 2 snakes went to my ex.. and i sold a female beardie..

that means now the ones i have can 100% get the extra money in their vet bill pot

and bear in mind the word deserve will conjur up differing repsonses from differen people... well it depends on the semantics of it.. and how words make you FEEL...

it can either be emotive or not and since i realised this was an emotional subject i changed the wording so as NOT to cause upset...

oh how wrong can one girl be

[luke123]

Originally Posted by Lucifus

Ok im not one for making these sorts of posts and coming from me this may seem ironic but....grow up people.

Im sick to death of people saying "If you cant afford to take your animal to the vets you dont deserve to keep animals". While keeping an animal in long term suffering is sickening the behaviour of some keepers is absolutely deplorable. Some people cant afford to take their animals to the vets in a moments notice. If one of my animals became sick it would have to wait till next week to be treated. However in simular threads some people of what i can only describe as overly concerned busy bodys riding a rather verticle horse telling others that just because they cant get an animal to a vet in a drop of a hat they shouldnt own them at all. Sometimes times are hard, there have been times over the past year where my animals have been living lives of luxary and ive had to go days without food. Myself and others care for their animals deeply and insulting someone whos already under massive amounts of stress and distraught that they shouldnt keep animals is truely unforgivable and sickening. Especially when its a 13 year old boy! Some people may have had lives of luxary and fed with a silver spoons as a baby but some of us havent. When i was 12 i got £5 a week pocket money which i used to buy books, most poket money now is £10 a week and sometimes the parents can barely afford that. Yes animal health is a big concern but getting upity because you can afford vets bills, nice house and countless reptiles when the target is a 13 year old boy with a leopard gecko that was kept poorly in a store is deplorable and you should be ashamed of yourself.

/rant over/

presuming this is to me. im 12. what does that have to do with anything? i get a fiveer a week, i save it, put away £2.50 a week. i have £100 now saved up so if anything happens its there...i dont get £10...and i personally think what i said was right, he wouldnt even buy a stat for his heat mat which is on of the reasons why his leo is ill.

[Lucifus]

Originally Posted by sparkle

Iam just glad there are both viewpoints on this thread..

I am sick of saying poor you to people who say they cant even afford basic vet treatment.. what is it with that type of sub-culture in animal keeping

Originally Posted by sparkle

there are various viewpoints on this thread.. just because ours differ does not make you a bad keeper or person... so dont take it personally just consider both sides..

If you cant afford it full stop then animals shouldn't be bought i agree, however sometimes things do get hard. I wouldn't buy an animal if i said " i want it but if it gets ill i cant take it to the vets" as thats irresponsible.


90% of the time i could take it to the vets, however its the 10% that i do worry about. However the level of care i give my animals makes sure that they never need to go to the vets. *touch wood*

There are both viewpoints and i do see the validity of both sides, however it really does get on my nerves where people have to state anything that is not constructive and in the short term only makes the person saying it feel superior. "Oh look at that silly man, cant even take his pets to the vet at the drop of a hat he doesn't deserve to keep them". Lets face it if someone said that to you in person im willing to bet you'd throw a few stern words towards them at the very least.

Again its not the viewpoint that annoys me the most, although it does annoy me, people are allowed their own views. However its the need to say it to someone already in distress that worry's me.

Oh and as people keep pointing out as they havent even bothered read my previous posts but still feel the need to have a go. There is a difference between "may need a vet", "will need a vet soon" and "If its not seen tomorow its dead". The last one being something if it ever happend and i let the animal die, in extremly minor terms id hate myself for it.

Originally Posted by sparkle

and bear in mind the word deserve will conjur up differing repsonses from differen people... well it depends on the semantics of it.. and how words make you FEEL...

I did a year of language study in psychology....how the hell did i forget that.

[sparkle]

licifus..

noone said look at the silly man on that thread.

frankly his attitude isnt silly its dangerous..

he wont buy stats for his animals.. and is a really difficult forumite to deal with... he refuses help and advice then comes on week later
saying OH MY GOD my animals dying..

that type of person i can only take so much of whether they are 13 or 30

alos its worth noting for future reference.. MAY need a vet is exactly the time to take a reptile... once its obvious its usually been going on for months.. any herp vet will tell you that.. reptiles do not display sickness immediately in an obviuos way very often

reptiles CANT cry.. so if they LOOK off or act oddly thats when to take them, not wait till its not saveable...

[Lucifus]

Originally Posted by sparkle

licifus..

noone said look at the silly man on that thread.

frankly his attitude isnt silly its dangerous..

he wont buy stats for his animals.. and is a really difficult forumite to deal with... he refuses help and advice then comes on week later
saying OH MY GOD my animals dying..

that type of person i can only take so much of whether they are 13 or 30

alos its worth noting for future reference.. MAY need a vet is exactly the time to take a reptile... once its obvious its usually been going on for months.. any herp vet will tell you that.. reptiles do not display sickness immediately in an obviuos way very often

reptiles CANT cry.. so if they LOOK off or act oddly thats when to take them, not wait till its not saveable...

Im not just talking about that case, im talking about the trend. And the quotations is paraphrasing not actually quoting anyone.

If he keeps buying animals and they keep dieing hes probably going to keep getting them anyway until his parents take a stand. Only difference is he may start doing it off the forums which is a shame as we can only pray that he actually gains some sense at some point through constant reminding. Although people could start try starting talking him out of getting any new animals but im sure thats been done before.

I can see where your coming from in that case and agree 100%

[joeyboy]

Personally i think you shouldn't really get a pet if you honestly know you can't afford any vets bills. Obviously for the most part animals won't need to go to vets at all, if only once or twice for worming and the works when you get them. But still i think people shouldn't take the risk, if when your pet got sick you know you couldn't afford treatment for them( especially reps since it seems those free vets or trhe RSPCA wont help them) you thought re-think getting one. After all you have a duty of care, it's like you wouldn't adopt a child if you knew you couldn't afford to feed it everyday or if it any clothes etc.

[jesuslovestheladies]

ill be taking my girl freinds cat to be nuted on monday, im not grumbling about it, and its an automatic response. how ever, if one of my amphibians started to show signs of discomfort, theres no way id take it to the vets.

No.1 - i study my animals natural habitat as much as i can, so when i encounter irrational behaviour, i take a look at the envrioment to see if there are any visible problems.

No.2 - i keep my animals on stats, and the ones that i dont simply dont require stats, in any case they are all hooked up to thermometers.

No.3 - i keep my animals as clean as i can, i rarely ever buy WC, and so i try to reduce the chances of hostile internal parasites. quarantining as well.

No.4 - i research captive husbandry measures as well as their wild habitat, my philosophy is 'prevention is better than the cure'

No.5 - if the animal does have an external wound, judging by how severe the damage is (and let me say unless my animals literally throw them selves from one side of the tank to the other theres no way they can break any bones or rip off limbs as they are all terrestrial) i treat it with tamodine.

No.6 as long as i have cottoned on to the situation soon enough, id attempt to treat an internal parasite my self using Beaphar medicines and the guidance of my freind whos kept all manner of herps for years.

No.7 - i simply dont have any faith in vets when amphibians are concerned, to my knowledge theres practically very little known in the vet industry about amphibian anatomy and so id feel it would be a waste of money. this isnt a dig at vets, its just my opinion. its only in the past 30 years or so that weve actually started keeping herps as a REAL hobby.

for instance, a certain person who will remain nameless took his animal to the vets as it had a skin complaint, they gave him vetasept pov/iodine a/so 25 ml. basically tamodine, now for the novice herper thats the correct thing to do, but for some one like me, i would have already tried that, thus eliminating the need for a ?possibly? exspensive trip to the vet.

its well and all saying if your not prepared to take your animal to the vet then you shouldnt be allowed to keep them but if you have experiance and have done alot of indepth study into an animals natural history and what exisiting anatomical studies there are, all but the most major problems i.e chitrid fungus, can be sorted out at home SO LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING AND HAVE THE SUPERVISION OF AN APPROPRIATELY EXPERIANCED HERP KEEPER. just a few caps locks so the kids dont think im saying the vets are usless.

flame me all you like for this comment i dont care, ive stuck by it for a while now, and im doing quite well, if needs must, then ill resort to a vet, but id rather apply my own experiance to the situation first.