Breeding for the sake of breeding

[Ssthisto]

Does anyone else ever think about their reasons for breeding the species or individuals they want to breed, or decide that, for whatever reason, it's NOT worth breeding those individuals (whether that's "this year" or "ever") ?

I'd posted in the Breeding forum asking which of my males other folks would pair with my female Granite het Amel corn... but I'm starting to question whether I should breed her *at all* next year. She's healthy, she's in good weight, she produces good clutches, I have a matching granite male (and half a dozen other males for other results) ...

Problem is that next year there really isn't anything I want out of her to keep for myself. I don't need another granite of either sex. I don't need bloodreds with various possible hets, let alone normal, amel or anery babies with various hets/possible hets. They'd be project babies, not visuals, and although I like project hets, the males I have ready now aren't going to make the projects I want.

The boys I DO want to keep project offspring from (Lavamel male, Snow het Hypo Blood male) aren't going to be old enough and big enough to breed next year, they're only '09 babies...

I almost certainly have an outlet for any offspring I choose to sell as long as I'm happy with store credit at trade prices and I'm willing to ensure that every baby sold has had four consecutive feeds before selling. Not that big a hardship; last year's babies paid for quite a bit of food and equipment.

So... do I breed the female to produce the largest number of saleable offspring (and breed up a whole clutch of granites that I personally don't want or need in so doing) ... or do I leave her until 2011, let her build up for an extra year and then breed the project hets I want from a female who's had a year off and might make a bigger, better clutch?

What would you do?

[sparkle]

I started a thread in the lizard section about this..

I am only breeding ONE pair of crested geckos next year.. because I dont see the point in adding a glut of crested geckos to the market when it is already becoming very saturated.. The pair I am breeding are stunning the female being a super dal.. so hopefully the babies will be in high demand, I am also growing them on till they are sexble..

if I were you I'd wait but its all down to personal preference..

PS.. will get those recipes to you this week x

[GlasgowGecko]

Its such a difficult question, and so many breeders (well those that I would consider breeders, not simple people who breed reptiles... perhaps a fine distinction....) are asking the same question.

Money is certainly not an issue, my main concern is the huge numbers of animals that are currently on the market which are not selling. The prices are coming down so far, it seems to me people are almost treating them as throw away. A good example of this would be buying a large number of hatchling crested geckos in the hope of getting some 'more valuable' females. The males are an unfortunate by-product and end up getting passed around from pillar to post...

We have decided not to breed our cresties and leos again next year for this exact reason. We really try to vet the homes we sell to, and it becomes very difficult to do this when the market is so flooded, and prices are so low...

Andy

[SleepyD]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Does anyone else ever think about their reasons for breeding the species or individuals they want to breed, or decide that, for whatever reason, it's NOT worth breeding those individuals (whether that's "this year" or "ever") ?

*nods* I think about this every time ~ for instance this year I only bred five leo females ~ three of which were first timers so smaller clutches ~ the vast majority of my females were not bred at all, some are on their second year of rest and some have never been bred but I am in no rush and I don't feel it's necessary to breed them just for the sake of it.
Next year I'll be breeding even fewer .. just two or three of my first-timer leo girls for a personal project and possibly one or two of my adult fat-tails if I get round to it

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

Money is certainly not an issue, my main concern is the huge numbers of animals that are currently on the market which are not selling. The prices are coming down so far, it seems to me people are almost treating them as throw away.

*nods* would go as far as to say in some cases it's seemed almost equatable/equivelant to 'factory farming'/back-street puppy breeding

[toyah]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Problem is that next year there really isn't anything I want out of her to keep for myself.

That would be enough for me to not bother doing the mating. My own rule is that I only do a pairing if there's offspring that I'd like to keep from it ... breed for yourself, not for any other reason.

[Molly75]

Very good point and yes this does pass through my mind on many an occassion I hold 400 reptiles here all sorts 200 being corn morphs alone yet I breed very little and still have 150 hatchlings here to release.

We still have the dilute motley and striped babies to go these pastel dilutes are UK firsts yet generated little interest as corns are sadly not the in thing shame really i'm happy to hold the lot back as I won't see them sell for silly money and be passed from pillar to post.

I so worry and don't produce babies to go to 10 different homes in a few months as they are not the in thing but want the babies i breed to have a good chance at life.

Prob the same reson i still have many many Rhacc's and Leo's other gecks and agarmids here but for the last two years have produced no or very few pre booked babies.

The rare geckos go before they are even conceived but then they are rare for a reason and a pain to get or hatch so always limited numbers.

I for one will be breeding very few next season and giving most a break.

Paula

[suez]

i have also given this a lot of thought and will only breed what i want to hold back from .some of my females have never been bred from and some of them never will be bred from.i like many other small hobbyist breeders worry about the throw away pass on culture and also the selling of sick, diseased and uncared for animals that we are seeing all to frequently.i think if we ALL are not more responsible it could have even more disastorus effect on our hobby.

[excession]

This thread makes some sobering reading

I have a few motivations for wanting to grow on and breed the reptiles we have, but it mostly started because I wanted a pair of corns to grow up with us so my son could see them go from hatchlings to adults and then see eggs incubate and hatch.

I had assumed that we'd be able to find homes for the resulting hatchlings.

We dont have aspirations be become big breeders, at most we are considering adding a pair or maybe a trio of royals. Prehaps we will stop at just the 1 royal girl and just leave it there.

[Ssthisto]

Originally Posted by sparkle

if I were you I'd wait but its all down to personal preference..

PS.. will get those recipes to you this week x

That is what I am leaning towards at this point - leaving Feldspar for a year until my project-plus-granite males are big enough to breed. It doesn't help that she's a great big beefer of a girl, so I don't want to try throwing a titchy little male in with her.

I am looking forward to the recipes

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

my main concern is the huge numbers of animals that are currently on the market which are not selling. The prices are coming down so far, it seems to me people are almost treating them as throw away.

There is that, although this is less of a concern for me - but you get right down to it, since my goal is to produce higher-end stuff, there comes a price point above which people just won't pay "that much" for a pet for little Billy. There are a lot more buyers for a snake that's "pet price" than there are for snakes that are "breeder/collector" price.

I don't mind being able to price things so that little Billy can have something special for "pet price" ... but at the same time I absolutely REFUSE to produce a clutchful of normals that are selling to *the public* at £5 or £10 a go. It's one thing to get those prices from a pet shop at trade (and I have sold babies to a shop for around that much this year, because I didn't want to deal with timewasters and keeping babies for months and months, until they sold - so my local shop got well-started nice babies with known hets and I got store credit enough to feed the rest for a couple of months).

Originally Posted by toyah

That would be enough for me to not bother doing the mating. My own rule is that I only do a pairing if there's offspring that I'd like to keep from it ... breed for yourself, not for any other reason.

I did rather think you might chime in, and you've echoed my essential sentiment.

My breeding goals are not to produce babies that sell... my breeding goals are to breed what *I* want to keep and any surplus *can* be sold, given away or eaten for supper (joke) but that's the side, not the focus. We're breeding three of our morph male royals next year. Why? Because we want a female pinstripe, a female cinnamon, a female pewter and a female lesser for ourselves.

It's a hobby for us, not a living. I suppose I should really think of it that way more often rather than worrying "but what if I don't breed so-and-so?"

If there were some way to have the snakes JUST produce what you wanted to keep (and maybe a couple of things that you could use to trade for other things you want but don't have) that'd be so convenient!

Originally Posted by excession

This thread makes some sobering reading

I have a few motivations for wanting to grow on and breed the reptiles we have, but it mostly started because I wanted a pair of corns to grow up with us so my son could see them go from hatchlings to adults and then see eggs incubate and hatch.

I had assumed that we'd be able to find homes for the resulting hatchlings.

Don't get me wrong, I have had no trouble selling the babies I wanted to sell this year - but I personally don't want to routinely overproduce if there's nothing in the clutch that I'm going to say "ooh, I want that for myself."

That's the whole point of it for me, being able to look over the clutch and say "I'm keeping that one, that one and maybe that one."

[Schip]

I've not bred my hognose this year as I'm not looking to keep more normals ergo to breed just for the sake of it would be pointless in my mind.

I have a few test breedings planned for next yr when my more morph/interesting males will be ready to breed. Hognose have a lot of potential for new morphs so you can have 'project' to work on if something 'interesting' shows up.