Thoughts??????

[HABU]

herps are being domesticated as we speak... just like those goofy goldfish with all kinds of human engineered deformities...


we already have them to where they couldn't survive as a wild animal...


morphs... designer snakes... all those things are part of the domestication process...


we never leave well enough alone... nature is never good enough for us.

[essexchondro]

herps are being domesticated as we speak... just like those goofy goldfish with all kinds of human engineered deformities...


we already have them to where they couldn't survive as a wild animal...


morphs... designer snakes... all those things are part of the domestication process...


we never leave well enough alone... nature is never good enough for us.

Any captive bred reptile is part of a domestication process if you want to frame the debate in those terms, though, regardless of whether or not it's a morph.

[Cold blooded but prime]

yea... I didnt think of all that.

Originally Posted by HABU

herps are being domesticated as we speak... just like those goofy goldfish with all kinds of human engineered deformities...


we already have them to where they couldn't survive as a wild animal...


morphs... designer snakes... all those things are part of the domestication process...


we never leave well enough alone... nature is never good enough for us.

[Luca Brasi]

Originally Posted by Cold blooded but prime

How can you say....... it wont ever happen simples lol its not as simple or black and white as that!

Well I could write several paragraphs, but to summarise very quickly I can say that because I understand the difference between animal behaviour and human emotion.

LB

[Cold blooded but prime]

The evidence is how you see the animal act around you, is this not what is proff with evidence of cats? because of the way they act around humans would imply they enjoy companionship, I would say that the way my iguana acts towards me and others is evidence of her enjoying companionship.
I dont see what I want to see, I see what I see and I see that my iguana shows evidence of companionship with me where as I wouldnt say my burm shows the same companionship lol

Originally Posted by essexchondro

But what evidence can you provide that proves that reptiles "enjoy" human companionship? It's all well and good saying that you believe they enjoy it, but without evidence that could be nothing more than wishful thinking on your part; a case of you "seeing what you want to see". It's human nature to want something that you love to love you back and this kind of anthropomorphism is something that a great many "pet" reptile keepers seem to be guilty of, in my opinion.

Suggesting that "domestication could be possible maybe just at some form of a different level" goes back to the point I made earlier about watering-down the definition of what domestication is. All you're really suggesting is to change the meaning of domestication so that the behaviour you're seeing in reptiles can qualify as domesticated! In other words, you're dragging the meaning of the term down, rather than acknowledging that the behaviour of reptiles should be elevated to the status of "domesticated".

[Cold blooded but prime]

oh no I definatley agree that there is a difference between human emotion and animal emotion I dont think anyone would deni that. But it would be interesting to read these paragraphs on your thoughts of this

Originally Posted by Luca Brasi

Well I could write several paragraphs, but to summarise very quickly I can say that because I understand the difference between animal behaviour and human emotion.

LB

[Luca Brasi]

Originally Posted by Cold blooded but prime

oh no I definatley agree that there is a difference between human emotion and animal emotion I dont think anyone would deni that. But it would be interesting to read these paragraphs on your thoughts of this

I don't have too many thoughts on animal emotion.

Their behaviour fascinates me though. Always has.

[becky89]

I don't feel that reptiles have emotion though... rather they're driven by instinct. I mean like with animals such as dogs, you can tell that there is some emotion, like when they're excited to see you, I just don't get that vibe from reps. Sure they might come out to see you when you're around, but I'd guess that's because you're a source of food more than anything

[essexchondro]

The evidence is how you see the animal act around you, is this not what is proff with evidence of cats? because of the way they act around humans would imply they enjoy companionship, I would say that the way my iguana acts towards me and others is evidence of her enjoying companionship.
I dont see what I want to see, I see what I see and I see that my iguana shows evidence of companionship with me where as I wouldnt say my burm shows the same companionship lol

But you're emphasising your own particular interpretation of that evidence to give the result you're looking for. That's hardly a scientific analysis (especially with a sample size of just one animal). If all of the behaviour that you're interpreting as evidence of the enjoyment of human companionship can be more plausibly explained simply in terms of the animals natural behaviour traits and tendencies then that evidence is not very strong evidence for the notion that the reptile enjoys human companionship.

[Cold blooded but prime]

I do see both sides of this and completly agree with you, if someone said to me my iguana shows emotion I would probaly think hmmmm really? but I find that my female ig does not act on instinct and is such a character from my other igs that only see me as food and something moving in the room, but as you say this mite just be me with wishfull thinking

Originally Posted by essexchondro

But you're emphasising your own particular interpretation of that evidence to give the result you're looking for. That's hardly a scientific analysis (especially with a sample size of just one animal). If all of the behaviour that you're interpreting as evidence of the enjoyment of human companionship can be more plausibly explained simply in terms of the animals natural behaviour traits and tendencies then that evidence is not very strong evidence for the notion that the reptile enjoys human companionship.