SS Tremper Albino Eye Colour...

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

Only if the light hits the eye directly so it can bounce back. Otherwise if the picture is taken on a angle and the red still shows then the eye is red and not blood vessels reflecting back

You're making a reference to how human eyes work there? For "red eye" to be seen on pictures of us people... the shot needs to be taken with a flash from an angle infront of the person. Humans aren't albinos though...

Take a REW (red eyed white) rabbit instead.... Now, no camera needed - just day light will do nicely.... you can stand at pretty well any angle to the rabbit such that you can still see the eye and it will appear red. And I can promise you there's no red pigment in a REW's eye - that's entirely down to blood vessel light reflection.

[marcgroovyge]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

You're making a reference to how human eyes work there? For "red eye" to be seen on pictures of us people... the shot needs to be taken with a flash from an angle infront of the person. Humans aren't albinos though...

Take a REW (red eyed white) rabbit instead.... Now, no camera needed - just day light will do nicely.... you can stand at pretty well any angle to the rabbit such that you can still see the eye and it will appear red. And I can promise you there's no red pigment in a REW's eye - that's entirely down to blood vessel light reflection.

Then how do you explain how the red pigment is stronger than the black? Plus rabbits are not lizards so its a different ball game again.

Albino = no black pigmentation.

[messengermatt]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

Albino = no black pigmentation.

Which means that a rainwater albino with black eyes cannot be an albino, and there is albino people lol did you not watch big brother last year.

[funky1]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

It has been done... and it doesn't result in dead eggs. Well, at least not most of the time. Whether or not the mortality rate is higher doing it that way, I don't know.

Even though this is a little off topic - Unfortunately it quite often does result in dead eggs - if not dead then deformed. Not all of the time granted, but surely it`s much better practice to gradually increase the temps of incubating eggs over a slighty longer time, and as such help safeguard their health and physical prowess - than subject them to such a big temperature rise (and the resulting increased risk) in the hope of brighter colours?!

As said, it`s a whole other thread really, but personally I don`t think advisable to state it doesn`t result in dead eggs. A rise or fall of such magnitude in a short space of time, is surely comparable to that of a powercut - and everyone knows the risks involved with them. But if someone is aware of the complications it can cause - and they still go ahead, then that`s their business entirely.

However, each to their own, suppose we all use slightly different methods and have our own faux balls (that`s how google spells it anyway ). Just wouldn`t want anyone for example, who only had 2 of the most precious eggs in the world - that mean everything to them - to go and bang up their incubator by 10 degrees on the off chance of making something a little more special without being aware of the risks involved.

[Mal]

I knew I had read something about this lol. Ok, its rather long but here goes. Ive copied it from The Learning Center - Leopard Gecko Morphs

Special Notes About Eye Color




Recently a number of new morphs, and a couple of new mutations have been released which have an effect upon the eye color of Leopard Geckos. With two distinctly different mutations having an identical effect, an enormous amount of confusion is already present among hobbyists. The information presented here should help clarify this confusion.

• Albinism
  Three distinct forms of albinism are well-established in Leopard Geckos. All three are tyrosinase positive forms, and are so similar in appearance they cannot be separated visually with 100% certainty. It is absolutely critical to be aware which line specimens to be used for breeding programs are from, use of more than one type will result in normal appearing geckos, and if bred together, these may then produce offspring of either or both types. That can be a confusing mess to sort out later!
  
  All three forms of albinism have an effect on eye coloration, although not as consistently as breeders would prefer. Some, but not all, hatchlings have distinct eyes, with reddish pupils and a pink colored iris. For reasons not understood, some hatchlings will have very dark eyes, almost normal appearing. It has been postulated by some that temperature plays a role in embryonic eye color development. Others feel some hidden genetic trait is at work.
  
  Regardless of the reason, it is important to understand that this occurs and that it can be even more pronounced when combined with additional mutations. It is also important to realize that this red coloration will be lost as the animals mature. With growth, the iris thickens and the pinkish color of blood vessels previously showing through the thin cell layers of the iris will be obscured by the solid light golden color of the much thicker mature iris. Most confusion in this regard surrounds the "Blazing Blizzard" which was highly promoted some years ago using artist's renditions of what the expected offspring would look like. a combination of Blizzard and Albino, it was expected these would be a solid white gecko with startlingly solid red eyes. We know now that this is far from the truth, for while some specimens are rather whitish, the vast majority are light cream in color. As with all albinos, the eye color will vary from a clean light red pupil on a pink iris to a very dark, almost normal appearing eye.
  

Same piece of literature regarding Mack Snows/SuperSnows

As with all albinos, the actual color of the eye can vary from light red to near black, as described in the albinism section above. So it's possible to produce one that appears to have almost solid black eyes, rather than the desired red

[messengermatt]

Originally Posted by Mal

As with all albinos, the actual color of the eye can vary from light red to near black, as described in the albinism section above. So it's possible to produce one that appears to have almost solid black eyes, rather than the desired red

So bang goes the theory of actual black eyes then because near black isnt black.

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by funky1

Even though this is a little off topic - Unfortunately it quite often does result in dead eggs - if not dead then deformed. Not all of the time granted, but surely it`s much better practice to gradually increase the temps of incubating eggs over a slighty longer time, and as such help safeguard their health and physical prowess - than subject them to such a big temperature rise (and the resulting increased risk) in the hope of brighter colours?!

As said, it`s a whole other thread really, but personally I don`t think advisable to state it doesn`t result in dead eggs. A rise or fall of such magnitude in a short space of time, is surely comparable to that of a powercut - and everyone knows the risks involved with them. But if someone is aware of the complications it can cause - and they still go ahead, then that`s their business entirely.

However, each to their own, suppose we all use slightly different methods and have our own faux balls (that`s how google spells it anyway ). Just wouldn`t want anyone for example, who only had 2 of the most precious eggs in the world - that mean everything to them - to go and bang up their incubator by 10 degrees on the off chance of making something a little more special without being aware of the risks involved.

Fair enough You know more about incubating in that manner than I do. I did actually state...

It has been done... and it doesn't result in dead eggs. Well, at least not most of the time. Whether or not the mortality rate is higher doing it that way, I don't know.

In other words, I know it can work but whether or not it kills more eggs doing it that way, I didn't know... Now I do

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

Then how do you explain how the red pigment is stronger than the black? Plus rabbits are not lizards so its a different ball game again.

Albino = no black pigmentation.

For starters, I suggest you read back a few pages again (I have to keep saying that on this thead!!) and read the bit from Gazz with regards to how "albino" in Leopard gecko actually works - that it is NOT a "true" albino because it does not remove all the body pigmentation - Albino Leos still have spotting, just not black/extremely dark brown as per a normal.

Secondly - you are now stating that red is infact a pigmentation? If you go have a read up on how the albino trait works in other species, rather than in Leos... I mentioned REW rabbits because you will find a truck load of info about how the albino traits stops Tyrosinase enzyme production, blocking out all pigment in the eye, causing them to show as red. The enzymes responsible for eye pigment in rabbits is the exact same group as that in Leos.... not a different ball game.

Edit: I just read Mal's snippet...

With growth, the iris thickens and the pinkish color of blood vessels previously showing through the thin cell layers of the iris will be obscured by the solid light golden color of the much thicker mature iris.

Stating it's not a red pigment.

As with all albinos, the actual color of the eye can vary from light red to near black, as described in the albinism section above. So it's possible to produce one that appears to have almost solid black eyes, rather than the desired red

Fair enough.... obviously it can be so close to black though that it's impossible for the human eye to detect, even on photographs which have been enhanced to try and show any level or redness.... which makes them pretty darn black if every RGB colour value comes up with naff all "R", "G" or "B"

[LoveGeckos.com]

The original post by Tony was an interesting one and one that could have created a healthy debate.

Although, I cannot see a healthy debate going on, I see this heading for "I'm right",”You are wrong".

Unfortunately people cannot think outside the box. Even the most respected experts in their field can be wrong. Take Stephen Hawkins, his theory on Black Holes; people have followed his findings for years. However, some of his theories regarding Black Holes have been blown out of the water in recent years, and that was by himself. At least he showed that he is open to new ideas, he continued researching and found out more, and then adapted his findings. All I am saying is not everything is black and red (White).

I haven't fully committed to saying my gecko has black eyes, I am still happy to discuss and see where we get. They may all end up being dark red eyes that look black, but at least let’s entertain the idea.

People seem to have the mentality of let’s get one over the over person, lets flex our muscles and see who will win, why?

What happened to teamwork, flexibility, and open to new ideas? I guess some people can only go by what they know and read.

I can just imagine an expert in genetics/geckos down the line says "Super Snow Albinos can have black and Red Eyes" and then everyone turning around and saying I told you so, even though they are all saying Red now.

Let's all get on, debate and see what we find out.

[messengermatt]

Originally Posted by LoveGeckos.com

The original post by Tony was an interesting one and one that could have created a healthy debate.

Although, I cannot see a healthy debate going on, I see this heading for "I'm right",”You are wrong".

Unfortunately people cannot think outside the box. Even the most respected experts in their field can be wrong. Take Stephen Hawkins, his theory on Black Holes; people have followed his findings for years. However, some of his theories regarding Black Holes have been blown out of the water in recent years, and that was by himself. At least he showed that he is open to new ideas, he continued researching and found out more, and then adapted his findings. All I am saying is not everything is black and red (White).

I haven't fully committed to saying my gecko has black eyes, I am still happy to discuss and see where we get. They may all end up being dark red eyes that look black, but at least let’s entertain the idea.

People seem to have the mentality of let’s get one over the over person, lets flex our muscles and see who will win, why?

What happened to teamwork, flexibility, and open to new ideas? I guess some people can only go by what they know and read.

I can just imagine an expert in genetics/geckos down the line says "Super Snow Albinos can have black and Red Eyes" and then everyone turning around and saying I told you so, even though they are all saying Red now.

Let's all get on, debate and see what we find out.

Ok so you start the debate and we will reply