SS Tremper Albino Eye Colour...

[gazz]

Originally Posted by nuttybabez

Gazz, I guess some people like to show off their leos and get great pics of them and others just can't be bothered...makes me wonder what you do actually have in your collection and how many leos you have *actually* owned, rather than read and dreamed about. And no I was not saying this makes you any more knowledgeable, just less practically experienced thats all. You seem very dismissive of other peoples successes and experiences. Good luck on your A1 search. Them that look for perfection will realise this doesn't exist, but hey I am sure you are happy with your leos and I am happy with mine.

I started on reptiles when i was 13 i'm now 29.I don't just have leo's and deffo don't have what i'd like.This is due to a valid reason and i can't have number i used to have.But every thing i lean't in past and presant years.I don't have what i had 10 year back but i'm still very much in the game and my knowledge is't dinosaur grade.Sorry if this comes across as big headed but i know my stuff.Beleave me money wise i could very likly buy what you twice over but physically this is not possible.And beleave me no one is more pd about this than me.But life's a bh and all you can do is get on with it.

[Mal]

I think this could simply be summed up as albino SS leos eyes can range in colour from red to those that appear to be black. I have no doubt that my JMG albino SS with apparently black eyes is actually 100% albino. I have no doubt that the offspring from her as shown in early pictures are 100 %albino. Their eye colours range from red in the higher temp incubated males to appearing almost black in the lower temp incubated females. They are all however albino. I would be interested to hear from others that are actually breeding albino (T) Super Snows to find out if they are producing all red eyed hatchlings. One of the most respected breeders on here told me how pleased he was the other day with the fact he had managed to hatch a couple of red eyed boys. Apart from that statement giving a bit of support to the incubation temp theory it also indicated to me that red eys arent as common as we think. Otherwise it would have been wow..Ive hatched out a black eyed albino.

Just as a side interest to this. Channel 4 had a programme on a couple of months back about albino children. One of the kids featured was medically classed as albino but he did not have albino eyes. Nature even throws quirks amongst its quirks. ( I dont mean quirk in an offensive way)

Im sure others will add to this thread but I would like to say thanks to Funky for starting it. It has been interesting and informative.

[funky1]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

Fair enough You know more about incubating in that manner than I do. I did actually state...



In other words, I know it can work but whether or not it kills more eggs doing it that way, I didn't know... Now I do

Haha, no problem pal - I wasn`t meaning to correct or anything like that, just didn`t want anyone who possibly had struggled to get 2 eggs all season bumping up the temps without being aware that it`s a risk is all! There`s no bigger heartbreaker than a fully formed hatchling coming out all beautiful and bright (planned), but dead as a dodo (unplanned!) No worries at all anyroad.

[marcgroovyge]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

Secondly - you are now stating that red is infact a pigmentation? If you go have a read up on how the albino trait works in other species, rather than in Leos... I mentioned REW rabbits because you will find a truck load of info about how the albino traits stops Tyrosinase enzyme production, blocking out all pigment in the eye, causing them to show as red. The enzymes responsible for eye pigment in rabbits is the exact same group as that in Leos.... not a different ball game.

A rabbits eye is much larger than a leos eye so it will be more visibally noticable of any red showing from the eye also leos are night dewllers so they have different eyes to rabbits anyway. Where as people keep saying near black colourations will be found on a albino leo and not actually black.

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by Mal

I think this could simply be summed up as albino SS leos eyes can range in colour from red to those that appear to be black. I have no doubt that my JMG albino SS with apparently black eyes is actually 100% albino. I have no doubt that the offspring from her as shown in early pictures are 100 %albino. Their eye colours range from red in the higher temp incubated males to appearing almost black in the lower temp incubated females. They are all however albino. I would be interested to hear from others that are actually breeding albino (T) Super Snows to find out if they are producing all red eyed hatchlings. One of the most respected breeders on here told me how pleased he was the other day with the fact he had managed to hatch a couple of red eyed boys. Apart from that statement giving a bit of support to the incubation temp theory it also indicated to me that red eys arent as common as we think. Otherwise it would have been wow..Ive hatched out a black eyed albino.

Agreed.... I will add to it a little, well, already did a long time ago in a page a long way away... well, number 5 to be exact....

You are basing your views of what a Supersnow Albino's eyes should do on what you see a RAPTORs eyes do. Yes, if a RAPTOR shows the solid eyed trait instead of snake eyes, it's eyes WILL be red. However, as I said in detail back on page 2 I think it was.... you will notice that not all RAPTORs have bright red eyes - some have darker red / ruby eyes. It is my belief that the albino trait is able to limit Tyrosinase enzyme production in true Eclipse gene carriers (RAPTOR for example) more readily than it can in Supersnows.

So, taking the idea from the RAPTOR of bright red through to ruby as possible colours let's take Supersnows instead where, in some cases, albino limits the pigmentation a lot... Meaning hardly any dark pigmentation and bright red eyes... in other cases it barely touches the production of it at all... to the point where you can not see any reduction in pigmentation - so, eyes are dark still... black in the cases where pigmentation isnt reduced as such.

Just a theory (about Tyrosinase production being more easily stopped in Eclipse carriers than Supersnows) but, it would fit with what you see.... Given lots of people out there have visibly solid black eyed Supersnow Albinos

To add to that - although again, I think I might have said it on another post somewhere in the thread but can't remember where, lol... Either that or someone else said it...

It would appear that in Supersnow Albinos... Rainwater albino has the hardest time blocking eye pigment... Tremper can be somewhat variable (visibly black through to reasonably red)... Bell tends to be the most red.

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

A rabbits eye is much larger than a leos eye so it will be more visibally noticable of any red showing from the eye

I'm not entirely sure what that's got to do with what I was saying about why their eyes appear red (rabbits and leos).

also leos are night dewllers so they have different eyes to rabbits anyway.

Don't take this as me being nasty... Do I take it you don't have any rabbits? You know where they live in the wild?

Where as people keep saying near black colourations will be found on a albino leo and not actually black.

Quite a few people are saying they have absolutely visibly black eyed SSAs... even when helped out with flash photography. I just think it's possible with RW and Tremper SSAs for the pigment reduction to be so tiny that it is a "near as" none existant reduction... so, eyes appear visibly black - even under flash light, even if you take the pic, brighten it, zoom in and then check every single individual pixel's RGB values.

[marcgroovyge]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

I'm not entirely sure what that's got to do with what I was saying about why their eyes appear red (rabbits and leos).

But the eye isnt black if its a albino. It will only appear to be black...

I get where your coming from but albinos lack black pigmentation. If it has black on it then its not actually a albino. Its a different strain

[marcgroovyge]

Originally Posted by forgottenEntity

Don't take this as me being nasty... Do I take it you don't have any rabbits? You know where they live in the wild?

Actually for your information there like 30+ just down the road that all come out during the day. They all live on a huge round a bout so not all rabbits are night dwellers. And also FYI even if you own a rabbit..... they come out during the day or have you not been into pets at home? I dont think they would sell many if they was all hiding. But that is going off the topic. All I wanted to state was they are not all night dwellers so sorry if this is taken the wrong way

[forgottenEntity]

Originally Posted by marcgroovyge

Actually for your information there like 30+ just down the road that all come out during the day. They all live on a huge round a bout so not all rabbits are night dwellers. And also FYI even if you own a rabbit..... they come out during the day or have you not been into pets at home? I dont think they would sell many if they was all hiding. But that is going off the topic. All I wanted to state was they are not all night dwellers so sorry if this is taken the wrong way

Ho hum.... We have a room dedicated to rabbits here... we breed them on a very small scale. I know pets at home very well - we used to take on some of their rescue rabbits.

also leos are night dewllers so they have different eyes to rabbits anyway.

In the wild, how do they see when in their burrows then? Which was the point I was trying to make. You were saying they have different eyes to leos because Leos are night dwellers.... erm.... see my point?

Just forget the rabbits ever got a mention - I was trying to explain about how the red colour works because you were talking camera angles and then red pigmentation. I was just using them as a better example than a human eye as to why red eyes look red.

[Mal]

Just to throw a spanner in the works. I just looked in the incubator where all my previous albino SS hatchlings with apparently black eyes had hatched. Guess what.......another albino SS hatchling this time with red eyes. The temperature settings are unchanged.