Pimp my Vivarium - Pic Heavy

[Mirf]

Originally Posted by stern69

Ok ok Smithers, i'm talking to Mr Burns.

Originally Posted by stern69

No of course, stand away! This forum is for discussing afterall and i do like a good debate (Not an argument mind!)
I know what your saying so far as the closer the better but 12"? Is that not OTT?

Was there really any need for that comment???? As you said youself, this forum is for discussion and not arguments! I was merely sharing my experience as a reptile keeper.

[stern69]

Originally Posted by Mirf

Was there really any need for that comment???? As you said youself, this forum is for discussion and not arguments! I was merely sharing my experience as a reptile keeper.

Well i thought it was funny!

[Saedcantas]

Excellent!

Generally you'll hear beardie keepers advised to setup vivs to allow their animals to be no further from the tube than 12" and up to 8" is suggested (I've been advising people to allow their beardies a maximum of 8" from the tube since I was 16 working in a reptile shop...)

While these numbers are fairly arbitrary since setups differ and tubes used differ in output. The idea is to work within a range that is likely to suffice.

Did you visit the UVGuide website?;
UV Lighting for Reptiles: UVB Fluorescent Tubes Test Results

View Graph 1. for the UV output of two brand new Reptisun 10% tubes at 12". You're looking at 35-40uW/cm2. Even with a reflector fitted you're looking at 80uW/cm2, that's when it's brand new! what about in 6-12 months time when people think about replacing it? As I've already mentioned, we're talking about a species exposed to as much as 500-600uW/cm2 daily. I can walk outside here in the Channel Isles on a december day and read more than 80uW/cm2 in the carpark!

It's not rocket science, we know fairly well how much these tubes are producing in most vivarium applications, we know what these animals are exposed to in the wild and we know that their skin is quite obviously toughened and adapted to block;
UV Transmission through Reptile Skin Shed

We also know that MBD is worryingly prevalent in the hobby with species such as bearded dragons.
The thing you have to get your head around is that herps in particular are incredibly good at withstanding low level MBD without external symptoms or obvious damage. Herps will almost happily eat, run around and reproduce with poor bone density, existing or previous bone, organ and muscle damage from MBD.

Lets not forget that the reason sufficient UVB exposure is so crucial is for vitamin D3 synthesis, perhaps your friend is providing this significantly through supplementation?

[Saedcantas]

Originally Posted by stern69

As for the info being anecdotal, it's more first hand eye witness from years or being mates and growing up with him and alot of his dragons.
He's not some world famous keeper or anything, just a guy that has kept alot of beardies for a long time. I know what your saying so far as the closer the better but 12"? Is that not OTT?

By the way though!
A first hand eyewitness account is "anecdotal evidence". In that it is not scientific or rigorous evidence and is merely one persons account of something they saw/believe/heard etc.

12" isn't enough, let alone "OTT".

Oh yes;

Originally Posted by stern69

I work in risk management and as anybody else in the field will tell you, the first thing to do when trying to reduce the level of risk presented by a hazard is to eliminate the hazard altogether.

I thoroughly enjoyed this as it's perfect.
To eliminate the risk of MBD, remove the hazard of distant UVB tubes, simply use your UVB tube at a useful and effective distance, i.e: at a maximum of 12" distance, the basking area should be significantly closer!

[eddy]

not got a clue about keeping beardies, so not commenting on the suitablilty of the viv, but would like to add my two thumbs up for the design, looks mega, alot of hard work has clearly gone into it, very cool

[t o k a y]

this viv is great i dont know why it has been criticised tbh the uv isnt that far coould be closer i know but instead of slatin if say sumfin contructive like a mvb woulb be good for the viv

[bothrops]

Originally Posted by t o k a y

this viv is great i dont know why it has been criticised tbh the uv isnt that far coould be closer i know but instead of slatin if say sumfin contructive like a mvb woulb be good for the viv

MVB would almost certainly be too hot for a viv that size. Remember they can't be statted so require a large viv to ensure they can be adjusted to the correct height to maintain basking spot temps.

[red-eyed tree frog man]

wow that was a long read i think this should be made into a sticky

[melndal]

that is absolutely amazing!!

[t o k a y]

Originally Posted by bothrops

MVB would almost certainly be too hot for a viv that size. Remember they can't be statted so require a large viv to ensure they can be adjusted to the correct height to maintain basking spot temps.

60w ebs dont realy give of heat so i heard