reccomendations on what substrate to use for a crestie?

[jabba1967]

Originally Posted by olivine

Where do you want me to start with the care sheet? That cresties are in fact only semi-arboreal? That it advises the use of pureed apple (too acidic) or banana (inhibits calcium absorption)? Or baby food (completely crap)? Or advising mixing calcium / vitamins with fruit as a staple (check out threads on poorly cresties (often suffering from MBD) that have been posted on here to find out just how difficult it is to get the balance correct)?

Or the recommendation of a viv that's too small for one individual (generally accepted absolute minimum for an adult (18"x18"x18") gives 5832 cubic inches of spaces whereas their recommendation (12"x12"x24") only gives 3455 cubic inches?) Or shall I be really opinionated and say that I wouldn't take advice from anyone who is so clearly unable to use a spell checker?

Though even such a poor care sheet as this one does at least acknowledge that an impaction risk does exist if loose substrates are used. Or are you so opinionated that you pick and choose which bits of advice to follow from your own preferred care sheet

I will have to concede most of the points here, after consulting with the other half, it would seem that a lot of the info in the care sheet is infact a bit crap.

Please ignore it everyone

Jay

[beguana]

Originally Posted by jabba1967

I will have to concede most of the points here, after consulting with the other half, it would seem that a lot of the info in the care sheet is infact a bit crap.

Please ignore it everyone

Jay

Is anyone going to answer my question?
Take it everyone is saying not to use loose substrate for hatchlings then?
Im reading those care sheets over and over again! emailing livefoodsbypost today to see how much i need to pay off to have it here by october woop!
Dose anyone know where i can get fake plants for cheap?

[jabba1967]

Originally Posted by beguana

Is anyone going to answer my question?
Take it everyone is saying not to use loose substrate for hatchlings then?
Im reading those care sheets over and over again! emailing livefoodsbypost today to see how much i need to pay off to have it here by october woop!
Dose anyone know where i can get fake plants for cheap?

very few will answer that for fear of starting WWIII.

But i will give you food for thought, "they" say you shouldn't put a baby beardie on loose substrate, yet a 3 month old beardie is bigger than my adult crestie?

A 3 month old crestie is bigger than my 8 month old house geckos.

SOooo, if you take it that it is the size of the animals gut that is the limiting factor, then logic dictates that there is a minimum size for an animal to be that would be concidered safe, and if we say the safe size is...Oh lets say 24" then animals like cresties will never be concidered safe on loose substrates. Does this make sense?

Jay

[Nix]

Hi all,

Jabba - great set up. Looks awesome.

As for my little crestie I keep him on orchid bark. The large chips so he can't ingest them (each chip is bigger than his head and he couldn't get one in his mouth). I've got about an inch or two of eco earth under that to help with the humidity. Seems to do the job nicely

[Quiller]

Nice looking set up. Cresties are next on my list - roll on the September Donny show!

I won't be using kitchen roll - but it's a personal preference thing. Having said that, if I thought for a minute that any of my lizards would fare better on it I would certainly use it.

[biohazard156]

I will add my bit here too....from MY experience with trying several types of flooring...

I use kitchen roll for hatchlings, no...I am NOT lazy, but yes, it is easy to clean, easy to monitor pooping at such a young age and it stops them eating it while they are still learning to aim properly when hunting.

For my adults I use compacted down eco earth. I used to use orchid bark, but I found them trying to eat it...so i stopped that... I also used to use sphagnum moss....but again...they ended up eating bits of it... So back to normal ecoearth it is. I don't find that my adults eat it, but then again, i rarely feed the adults with livefood.

And this....is what can happen to animals who ingest substrate....bark in particular..

For those of you who use bark substrate ( necropsy photos) - Gecko Resource Forums

[SleepyD]

Originally Posted by jabba1967

the vast majority of people on this forum who use paper for any lizard/snake/amphib, do so becuase it it "easier" and and takes less "effort" to maintain, in other words they put themselves ahead of their animals. To spell it out, these people are lazy.

I don't normally bother posting on threads that don't centre on leo's etc but seeing the above 'blanket' statement I thought I'd make an exception.

I (along with many others) use paper or similar for my vivs ~ yes it is easier to maintain especially considering that I spot clean every day (I personally don't like leaving faeces (wet or dry) longer then necessary in a closed environment to build-up into potential bacterial hot-spots plus using paper I can spot straightaway if any faeces are abnormal and so catch any potential problems before they expand) with an all round clean bi-weekly and a full strip-down clean monthly so far from taking less effort it actually takes more ~ further I (and again like many others who use paper etc) don't put myself before my reps and neither would I consider myself as 'lazy' .
Just because some prefer basic substrates/set-ups as opposed to fancy doesn't mean that they care any less for their reps.

[jabba1967]

Originally Posted by biohazard156

I will add my bit here too....from MY experience with trying several types of flooring...

I use kitchen roll for hatchlings, no...I am NOT lazy, but yes, it is easy to clean, easy to monitor pooping at such a young age and it stops them eating it while they are still learning to aim properly when hunting.

For my adults I use compacted down eco earth. I used to use orchid bark, but I found them trying to eat it...so i stopped that... I also used to use sphagnum moss....but again...they ended up eating bits of it... So back to normal ecoearth it is. I don't find that my adults eat it, but then again, i rarely feed the adults with livefood.

And this....is what can happen to animals who ingest substrate....bark in particular..

For those of you who use bark substrate ( necropsy photos) - Gecko Resource Forums

Originally Posted by SleepyD

I don't normally bother posting on threads that don't centre on leo's etc but seeing the above 'blanket' statement I thought I'd make an exception.

I (along with many others) use paper or similar for my vivs ~ yes it is easier to maintain especially considering that I spot clean every day (I personally don't like leaving faeces (wet or dry) longer then necessary in a closed environment to build-up into potential bacterial hot-spots plus using paper I can spot straightaway if any faeces are abnormal and so catch any potential problems before they expand) with an all round clean bi-weekly and a full strip-down clean monthly so far from taking less effort it actually takes more ~ further I (and again like many others who use paper etc) don't put myself before my reps and neither would I consider myself as 'lazy' .
Just because some prefer basic substrates/set-ups as opposed to fancy doesn't mean that they care any less for their reps.

well that's me told then.

Funny thing is I was thinking the same a while back, I was helping out at Durrell wildlife trust, The fist job I was given to do was pick up scraps of food and shit, from the bakeri and delicatissima enclosures, now being as the floor is covered in big bark chips, (the same colout as the shit I may add), it took me some time to find all the little turds!

Now knowing how short staffed they are there, (my girlfriend finishes over an hour late every day, and the other keepers sometimes later), I put it to the keepers, wouldn't it be easier to leave the floor bare, or use paper? Now as I have already stated, that the keepers are hard pressed for time as it is, and being these particular animals aren't even on display, I thought this to be a "sensible" proposition, however as far as they are concerned, it is about the animals, not the keepers, the animals get kept in "ideal" enclosures, even the ones in quarantine, where no one but the keepers go.

So in short, if an under staffed under financed over worked conservation trust can keep there animals on the "approprate" substrate, then so can you.

I don't take back what I said, if you use paper for "your" convenience, then you are lazy.

Deal with it, and stop trying to justify your actions, I've seen the amount of extra work people who really care about the animals under their supervision do, these people have to dig around in soil, sand, water, to find eggs on a daily bases, they have to find faecal samples to go to the lab on a daily bases, there life would be a hell of a lot easier if they used paper, but they don't

In short, I don't care what you use, it's your animal, it's your conscience, I wont loose any sleep over it

Jay

[CreepyCrumpet]

Well said Sleepy!

And Jabba you are trying to force your opinion upon others and making seemingly spiteful comments and it seems like your trying to make us keepers who do use kitchen roll feel like we dont care for our animals.... which is well, laughable to be honest

[jabba1967]

Originally Posted by CreepyCrumpet

Well said Sleepy!

And Jabba you are trying to force your opinion upon others and making seemingly spiteful comments and it seems like your trying to make us keepers who do use kitchen roll feel like we dont care for our animals.... which is well, laughable to be honest

I'm not trying to force an opinion, I'm trying to put across another point of view, some food for thought, as I have said, I am lucky enough to know a group of people who have forgoten more about the husbandry of reptiles than most on here will ever know, (and that includes me ), But unfortunately there are a lot of "experts" on here that don't like people like me giving them an alternative point of view.

If you read my post again you will see I said I don't care what people use. What makes me laugh is that all the people that have had a pop at me, readly admit they use paper because it's easier, so they have admited they can't be bothered to do the right thing by their animal, because it takes longer, but they get upset at me for pointing this out to them, it would seem the truth hurts

All I have done is told these people the truth about themselves, and they can't handle it.

It's a bit like fat people telling you they're not fat, they are "big boned"

In short, I have told you that one of the worlds leading organizations wont cut corners for the sake of convenience, no mater how much time it would save, so using the "right" substrate is "always" possible, unless you can't be bothered.

Sorry if this is an "inconvenient truth"

Jay