Mixing species -PLEASE READ

[Blaptica]

I keep my reptiles mostly in very large enclosures. I almost always mix species rather than keep them on their own (where I think its appropriate). There are lots of potential pitfalls of course, if you don't do your research first to find out that species have similiar needs, and don't quarantine all animals for months before you introduce them into a "colony" then you are asking for problems. Of course for complete safety you could keep all reptiles individually. Then there is a reduced risk of disease transmission. But then that is also an arguement for keepers only keeping one animal because the keeper can always spread diseases between different reptiles (if you forget to wash hands between handling different animals for example) even if they are not housed together. Also it is quite easy for diseases to be transmitted between cages via mites, crickets, cockroaches, flies .. need I go on ?

It is worth remembering that many species are territorial and are easily stressed by others of the SAME species or genus. So I think it is worth remembering that when you keep different species together quite often they quickly ignore each other. Where as members of the same species in the same tank may stress each other out in ways sometimes too subtle for us to realize. Bearded dragons are not meant to be forced to live permanently no more than 4ft away from each other ! I would bet that many keepers keep several of these animals in tanks too small for the number they keep, resulting in stress for the animals concerned. But at least they are not mixing species, which is the worst crime a herpetologist can commit right ?

I would be the first to agree that generally it is a bad idea to mix species, especially in the size of vivs most keepers use. But a complete no no, I don't agree.

[Sleepybear]

Originally Posted by Matt Harris

1. My last posting on this thread was in February
2. Don't tell me how to behave
3. I'm not your 'hun', or anything else for that matter

Matt I was trying to be friendly like everyone else here. I'm sorry if you were offended by that but then you seem to get offended by everyone so I wont lose sleep over it.

Its a good thread that people want info on, no need to get nasty.

[Liam17]

May I join in the discussion?

The fact people are getting angry, grumpy and darn right nasty on here is absurd! Its a forum devised for people to share experiences, opinions and advice.

As you can see above I have highlighted share and opinions because the forum was devised to allow people to SHARE OPINIONS not push them on to one another. People will have different opinions and will always have discrepencies with how they keep animals. HOWEVER.

This does not mean any one way is the correct way, some people mix reptiles some people dont, some agree, some disagree. There are a vast number of animals of all species that hapily live together if not thrive from being together. And there are some that well dont.

Its quite upsetting to see the sheer amount of comotion cause by one person saying 'I keep my reptiles together and mix species'. They did not asked to be slated and become a target for slander. They were simply sharing their opinion. If you disagree with the way some one does something by all means tell them, but dont make a big deal out of it everyone is different. So please keep issues like this under controll.

Its a forum, and people should NOT get angry about it, its only text afterall

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Sorry if this has upset anyone.

[Sleepybear]

My point exactly Liam17, thankyou, well said.

[blackdragon]

i think its just two different concepts of keeping animals, the avarage rep keeper at home will have lernt what they know from books care sheets and the word of other experienced keepers and keep one rep in one viv on a safe substraight under equipment you can buy in shops, a zoo keeper on the other hand would use what they lern in collage and from the study of the animals in the wild and then have a huge budget to recreate that for a zoo display i doubt they would come back from years of study of an animal in the wild and then say ok we will keep this on newspaper and a heat mat. at the end of the day we do what we do and they do what they do both ways are probably as safe for the animal in question but are just totaly different

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by Art_Gecko101

All animal species in the world carry unique bacteria and protozoans that aid different processes to us, and in return they cause us no harm and we allow them to use the body of its host as protection and habitat. This process is called symbiosis. When 2 species come into close contact (as would happen in a vivarium) the symbionts from 1 species will get passed onto the other, and this may cause the 2nd species to become ill. What is harmless and healthy for 1 species is not for another. With WC animals, these problems are exacerbated, as you not only have to deal with symbionts, but parasites and illnesses that the other species will not be resistant to as they would not have been naturally exposed to them.

I feel this paragraph is a little misleading, although in essence the points it makes are true.
When you mention species wide resistance to a number of potential parasitic organisms (bacteria, symbionts etc...) this can be true, but the same can be said for specific populations, in fact there is much stronger argument for resistance at the level of population than at the level of species. So what does this mean then? Well each distinct wild population in a given territory would have specialist resistances and possibly specialist symbionts. Extrapolate this to the captive environment and the result is a large disparity in resistance/ parasite burden WITHIN species. Does this then mean that it is not suitable to mix the same species from different areas or breeders?

Andy

[strictly_scales]

Hi...

New here, not new to keeping reptiles. And, shock horror, I specialise in mixed community Vivaria. I also specialise in community fishtanks- thats where it all started. To date, I have 3 mixed community set-up's.

Set-up one: Sitting room. 0.1 Argus Monitor, 1.0 Argentine Black/White Tegu. Being the biggest 2, they are housed seperately from everything else, and roam the entire sitting room. They have an open viv with UV, basking spot, water dish and hides, measuring 4x2x2. Initially it was just the Argus, a re-home that came to me in a terrible state, so introducing the Tegu was the problem. He's shorter but bulkier. I neutralised the communal area by mixing substrates and articles from both lizards. I completely cleared the sitting room. I released the Tegu. I have had no problems. Argus was put out at first, but the 2 now bask and feed together, and help eachother trap locusts.

Set-up 2: Temporary accomodation. 1.1 Bearded Dragon, 1 Blue Tongued Skink. No problem at all.

Set-up 3: Mega-viv. This one was built specifically to house multiple species. Currently it houses a juvenile Bosc Monitor, adult Plated Lizard, and 4 adult Beardies. The Bosc hunts with the female Beardies, and is more active than he ever was on his own. The Plated and Bosc sleep together in the same hide, with the Plated guarding the hide and protecting the Bosc. I've even seen the male Dragon share prey with the Bosc with no conflict. Everything is in perfect health- I have had several clutches from this set-up. Obviously the Bosc is only a temporary inhabitant, but in the past my tortoise and my blue tongued skink have co-inhabited with the Beadies and Plated.

Here are the rules:

Provide more than enough space, hides, basking areas, feeding dishes, water dishes etc...
Research the specific requirements of each and every single species before you even consider putting them together, and if in doubt, don't.
Ensure all animals have been suitably quarantined and treated before hand.
Observe the enclosure frequently, especially during the first week.
Remember, conflict is a final resort in any species, and any animal will initially display at something deemed as a competitor until it realises it is no competition.
Finally, be fully prepared to get vinvolved if things turn ugly, which they rarely do. The worst I have ever got from mixing species is a savage bite from my Argus 2 days after introducing the Tegu. Shes fine with me now. Her way of telling me shes the boss.

[robbo101]

Bay have you mixed speices together?

[MarshallDavies]

why is everyone always arguing?

[Vyper]

Hi, i just want to ask, and i don't have time to read Can i keep Eublepharis Macularis in the same terrarium with tarentola Mauretanica small form?

Thanks, Martin