Breeding successes and failures this year.

[SleepyD]

Andy have found a number of the links and will pm them to you ok
What I have found though is that with regards eye defects etc this seems to be linked to a vitamin deficiency in foods/supplements with the females prior to or during egg laying notably vitamin A; there are also some thoughts in the USA that other deformities and/or infertile eggs may have been linked to (and possibly still linked too) chemicals etc fed to some livefood notably instances of chemicals halting livefood from pupation/breeding and contaminated livefood feed.
Now I know that malnourishment and nutritional deficiencies can play a part as can obesity but I would also think that hormonal/chemical imbalances could well effect the eggs too.

[Juzza12]

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

Thats really interesting. What was the humidity like? Also what were the results from the eggs you did find?

The humidity was kept between 70 and 80 in the viv itself. The laying tub was given a light spray on top every morning for humidity purposes, except for when the female was due to lay again in which case more water was added so that the soil/coco fibre would hold a tunnel and not collapse. There were times in the evening when the top of the lay tub looked pretty dry but i know from cleaning the tub out previously that the bottom can be pretty damp. As fot the results of the eggs, the other 2 were yellow and had dents in them. I did cut them open and it looked like a boiled egg for want of a better description lol.

[GlasgowGecko]

Yes that would be great thanks.

Vitamin deficiencies are pretty well know to cause abnormalities, with eyes being a commonly seen one. I keep saying it, but I really don't consider the 'temperature fluctuation' argument fully explains the real scope of problems we are seeing week-in-week-out. Eye deformities seem to be growing in frequency, and it would be nice to be able to put a finger on why this is happening, and what breeders can do to adequately prepare their animals for breeding.

Andy

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by Juzza12

The humidity was kept between 70 and 80 in the viv itself. The laying tub was given a light spray on top every morning for humidity purposes, except for when the female was due to lay again in which case more water was added so that the soil/coco fibre would hold a tunnel and not collapse. There were times in the evening when the top of the lay tub looked pretty dry but i know from cleaning the tub out previously that the bottom can be pretty damp. As fot the results of the eggs, the other 2 were yellow and had dents in them. I did cut them open and it looked like a boiled egg for want of a better description lol.

Ah, I see. So she only laid 3 eggs in total. I suspect you were pretty lucky with both the humidity and temperature, although it gives some clue as to how hardy the eggs (and development cycle) of some species are.

Andy

[SleepyD]

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

Eye deformities seem to be growing in frequency, and it would be nice to be able to put a finger on why this is happening, and what breeders can do to adequately prepare their animals for breeding.

*nods* I agree ~ I feel that some of the deformities that are on the increase are down to incorrect or non-existant supplementation combined with little or no preparation of the females along with factors such as age/weight etc ~ however ~ with most of the breeders I know and chat with this isn't the case so there has to be other or concurrent deciding factors at play ... question is what ~ which brings us full cycle in that more information etc is needed

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by SleepyD

*nods* I agree ~ I feel that some of the deformities that are on the increase are down to incorrect or non-existant supplementation combined with little or no preparation of the females along with factors such as age/weight etc ~ however ~ with most of the breeders I know and chat with this isn't the case so there has to be other or concurrent deciding factors at play ... question is what ~ which brings us full cycle in that more information etc is needed

It certainly does! So i'll reiterate my plea for more people to answer the questions from the first page. You don't have to be a big breeder, information from a single pair is just as useful as from a large collection.

Andy

[suez]

Well i will try my best here to help but I am afraid when it comes to book keeping I am nowhere near Mel(sleepy d) in efficiency. This year I have successfully hatched 45 veiled chameleons 2 of the babies died a day after hatch no apparent reason I found them on the floor of the viv the remainder remain fit and well and I am updated by the new owners. the fat tails i bred this year were 1 first timer she layed 4 eggs all hatched no probs and 2 older females one of them laid 3 single eggs (she is aprox 5 years old wild caught the other 2 year old female layed 8 2 of which went to full term and then didn’t make it out of the eggs. 2 first time sunglow leos 18 months old( live together) 1 had 2 eggs and then became egg-bound she had a hysterectomy as I didn’t want to put her at risk again the second (her sister)also had trouble laying my vet removed the eggs and also gave her a hysterectomy. Both of these females came from a highly respected breeder.USA .the eggs that were laid hatched but both babies had signs of mbd I decided to have them pts with full backing from my vet. The conclusion was made although both females were fit and well both weighing over 65 grams i had not cooled them and the thoughts of my vet were keeping them warm all year round they use up thyroxin much more quickly and in turn this leads to calcium stores being very quickly used up.(veterinary theory) both females recovered well and show no signs of ill health they will remain with me forever. The remaining 50 + eggs from other leos all hatched with no deformities. Whoops I forgot one enigma showed signs of slow growth although checked out by my vet to be healthy she will remain with me. I believe any temp fluctuations were minimal maybe 2 degrees either way.
the williamsi have not hatched yet i have 6 eggs
Hope this helps Andy

[neep_neep]

1) Species name: Rhacodactylus ciliatus

2) Number of breeding pairs: 3

3) Number of eggs laid: (infertile eggs were produced at the beginning of the season prior to mating, and at the end of the season - possible explanation below - I have only counted fertile eggs here)
Pair 1: 8
Pair 2: 6
Pair 3: 4

4) Number of eggs hatched: 17 out of 18

5) Number of hatchlings survived: All so far, though one is having problems shedding and I am having to hand feed (from pair 3)

6) Which breeding season (eg first season...):
Pair 1: 2nd season for the female, 1st for the male
Pair 2: 1st season for the female, 2nd for the male
Pair 3: 2nd season for both male and female

With all these pairs, I only place the male in with the female for a short amount of time, ranging from a day to a few weeks. So the difference in clutch number could be due to different amounts of viable retained sperm? The females in pairs 1 and 3 finished their seasons with a clutch of infertile eggs.

- How does this compare to previous seasons?
All eggs hatched last year. However, I lost one hatchling last year which failed to thrive - i'm hoping my 'weak' baby this year will pick up though.

- Can you attribute incubation/ hatchling failure to anything?
The one egg that didn't hatch went full term and expanded - It's clutchmate hatched out, but this one didn't. I am wondering if it was because I rotated the egg slightly? I always mark an X on the top of the egg, towards the end of incubation I had noticed it had rolled a little and thought I had maybe knocked the box, so rolled it back (only a few mm at most). I am wondering if maybe it was rolled at a critical point during development?

- Were all hatchlings 'perfect'?
No, one hatched with slightly strange looking crests - this is the one who is having shedding problems and requiring to be hand fed.


1) Species name: Goniurosaurus luii

2) Number of breeding pairs: 1

3) Number of eggs laid: 2 (plus one infertile egg)

4) Number of eggs hatched: 2

5) Number of hatchlings survived: 2

6) Which breeding season (eg first season...): 3rd season


This female only lays one egg per clutch.

- How does this compare to previous seasons?
I had 3 clutches last year (but no infertile eggs) and 1 infertile and 2 fertile clutches this year. Both hatchlings this year seem perfect.


1) Species name: Gambelia wislizenii

2) Number of breeding pairs: 1

3) Number of eggs laid: 2 (one fertile, one infertile)

4) Number of eggs hatched: 1

5) Number of hatchlings survived: 1

6) Which breeding season (eg first season...): First season

This was the first and only season - my female got eggbound after laying the first two so had to have surgery.

- Were all hatchlings 'perfect'?
The one hatchling hatched with a big kink in it's tail. There was a temperature spike during incubation so I am assuming this was the cause?


I hope it's of interest

[GlasgowGecko]

Thanks for the info guys, its exactly what I was looking for.

Hopefully this information will help with various things including Identifying species level breeding patterns and problems, but also to help new breeders get an idea of what is normal.

Suez, its very interesting to hear about the two related US females. This would perhaps appear to be a reduction in fitness in this line. It would be interesting to hear whether the breeder has notice similar patterns in their individuals.

Neep-neep, thats great thanks. I find it interesting that both pair 1 and pair 3 laid infertile clutches at the end of the season. Perhaps you are right in thinking that this signifies the last of the retained sperm has been used.

In general I find it quite interesting that much of the existing literature on reptile breeding fails to mention hatch success rate, and low fitness hatchlings. I think having some knowledge of these will help new breeders recognize what is normal, and what is not.

Andy

[messengermatt]

This thread is great if its ok with the people who have given the info i would like to use them to compare against next years events with our reps if thats ok of course.

Will enable to me to see similar things occuring as i document. i will get this years leo one for you in a min