Why do we devalue breeds in the uk?

[purple-vixen]

Originally Posted by sarasin

I might be considered a BIG breeder by some people (I don't consider myself one) but the money goes back into the geckos - feeding, vet bills, and housing, I recently paid £800 for new vivs for them.
I would say. Although I do have a large number of geckos at home most of them are never bred, in fact I have three very large vivariums dedicated to female crested geckos which are either retired or will never be bred. I have geckos in my collection that are 15+ years old that I would never sell just because they may not breed anymore. Although I do sell adults on from time to time I would never sell on anything 'past its use by date' as a breeder I would much rather retire it into my groups.
So in fact I only breed a handful of the geckos I keep, and breed for specific traits/morphs. If I was so inclined I could churn out any old thing and just add to the cresty population. I am not having a go at anyone in particular here BTW

I never meant anything bad from my comment to you or Julie&James by saying I can't breed as many as you, i.e. you can probably breed 3 or 4 pairs, where as I'll only every be able to breed 1 or 2.., I meant that you guys have more experience, and more room to house initially, I didn't mean to make out you were some epic breeder, but a very respectable breeder of quality an healthy geckos.. That is all I was getting at, I didn't mean for you to take it any other way.

Please accept my sincere apologies.

Jac

[sarasin]

Apology accepted

[suez]

there are many valid points been made and a great thread .I agree
it's all supply and demand. When supply exceeds demand prices drop.
Most damage is done by the transient breeders as has been said they just dissapear after a very short time when they realize there is not vast ammounts of money to be made.There will always be people who have a passion for animals and included in that passion they will want to expeirience breeding ,its facinating .Its just a shame there will always be people who think they can get rich quick.

[Jeffers3]

I'm still trying to get my head around this whole breeding thing, as it doesn't really appeal to me. Why are "morphs" regarded as "high end" and command high prices? The market collapses as soon as they become commonplace, so the question is why do people pay the high prices in the first place? The only answer I can come up is that breeders see these as a way of making money. The problem is that this continuous quest for the "next big thing" means that on the way, huge numbers of "failed experiments" result in a glut of unwanted animals, which are dumped on a saturating market.

Can anyone tell me that I'm wrong?

[ambyglam]

because people will pay more for high hend morphs because they are rarer... just like anything in life.

I myself own a pair of high end pinstripe cresties... and yes I did pay a lot more than I would normally pay, but they are very beautiful and exactly what i was looking for!

But then I have paid hundreds of pounds to own a rare crystal as I also do crystal healing, so I think that the value is in what people are prepared to pay, and to be honest I work my ass off to buy whatever the hell I like!

[Chris18]

Originally Posted by Jeffers3

I'm still trying to get my head around this whole breeding thing, as it doesn't really appeal to me. Why are "morphs" regarded as "high end" and command high prices? The market collapses as soon as they become commonplace, so the question is why do people pay the high prices in the first place? The only answer I can come up is that breeders see these as a way of making money. The problem is that this continuous quest for the "next big thing" means that on the way, huge numbers of "failed experiments" result in a glut of unwanted animals, which are dumped on a saturating market.

Can anyone tell me that I'm wrong?

The rarer the morph, the higher the price obviously.

I think you're wrong about discarding morphs though as once they're created they get a genuine fan base who prefer that morph and will keep them no matter if they're in 'fashion' or not.
Also look at purple vixen for example, she's working hard to get healthy cresties by bringing back big crests and large heads in morphs that already exist, not because that will fetch her more money (which is obviously will) but because that's natural and what she wants her geckos to look like, and then in turn she gets more money for her geckos for her hard work (which she should)
Personally for me the only cresties I like are halloweens and I love my extreme harley. I don't like them because they're rare, they're just appealing to my eye as I always like dark colors. Morphs are about personal choice for most people, NOT about fashion.

[ambyglam]

Originally Posted by Chris18

The rarer the morph, the higher the price obviously.

I think you're wrong about discarding morphs though as once they're created they get a genuine fan base who prefer that morph and will keep them no matter if they're in 'fashion' or not.
Also look at purple vixen for example, she's working hard to get healthy cresties by bringing back big crests and large heads in morphs that already exist, not because that will fetch her more money (which is obviously will) but because that's natural and what she wants her geckos to look like, and then in turn she gets more money for her geckos for her hard work (which she should)
Personally for me the only cresties I like are halloweens and I love my extreme harley. I don't like them because they're rare, they're just appealing to my eye as I always like dark colors. Morphs are about personal choice for most people, NOT about fashion.

good call m8 its all down to personal taste... I love plain cresties the most... and not that into some other morphs...

to be so black and white about things is really blanketed... thats like saying... I dont really go for a look in a man as long as he has a pulse and is healthy he will do!

sorry I like my men good looking and fit, and my cresties plain and brightly coloured... its all about personal choice.

[Jeffers3]

Originally Posted by Chris18

The rarer the morph, the higher the price obviously.

I think you're wrong about discarding morphs though as once they're created they get a genuine fan base who prefer that morph and will keep them no matter if they're in 'fashion' or not.


Morphs are about personal choice for most people, NOT about fashion.

I agree absolutely about rarity and price - it's exactly what I said. The trouble is, they don't stay rare for long.

I think you've misunderstood what I meant about discarding - what I meant was that every breeding experiment aims to get a particular outcome. Along the way there will be many failed attempts. These will largely fail to catch on as an established "morph" and will go into the "bargain bucket" as breeders won't want them. I applaud breeders who try to breed healthy traits - selecting strong animals with good temperaments and appetites. Exactly the opposite of those that breed the enigma morph, in fact.

If it's not about fashion, don't you think it's a bit odd that so many people have the same personal choice - and it's only for the rare morphs. As soon as they become common, that personal choice moves on to the next rare morph. Funny that, isn't it!

[Chris18]

Originally Posted by Jeffers3

I agree absolutely about rarity and price - it's exactly what I said. The trouble is, they don't stay rare for long.

I think you've misunderstood what I meant about discarding - what I meant was that every breeding experiment aims to get a particular outcome. Along the way there will be many failed attempts. These will largely fail to catch on as an established "morph" and will go into the "bargain bucket" as breeders won't want them. I applaud breeders who try to breed healthy traits - selecting strong animals with good temperaments and appetites. Exactly the opposite of those that breed the enigma morph, in fact.

If it's not about fashion, don't you think it's a bit odd that so many people have the same personal choice - and it's only for the rare morphs. As soon as they become common, that personal choice moves on to the next rare morph. Funny that, isn't it!

I did not mean to misunderstand or cause offense at all, so if I have done so I'm sorry.
Well it definitely depends on the person you're talking about, some people will follow the trends and I think they're stupid. Humans always take everything to the extreme, we cant even control our own population, and it certainly doesn't help when there are people having about 10 kids so they can just live off benefits for life, it's sickening.
But another point is that if they carry on breeding the same morphs then the market will surely become over crowded with that morph and when it's down to personal choice that isn't a good thing.
I don't know much about the enigma morph but it makes me very sad to think about it from what i've seen and dont agree with the breeding of them but maybe that's because I don't know enough about the subject?
When I start breeding I will be pairing up my cresties and only incubating the first clutch and keeping them for atleast the first 6 months to see what I produce before I consider repairing just incase I produce a so called 'failed experiment' that way I wont be making over 10 'unwanted' hatchlings, instead I will have 2 and they can be sold as pets or kept by me.
But there is genuinely people out there that think breeding morphs will bring in the mega money.
This girl in my class has a Leo from Pets at home because she had no other knowledge of geckos so couldnt source from a breeder, after a week I heard her talking to her friends saying she's looking into buying a morph gecko and she's going to breed the two and make a new morph and make a lot of money. Sickening.