cross pedigree cats

[feorag]

Originally Posted by KathyM

So a bengal cross moggie is permitted crossbreeding? That was the example given by the OP lol.

Regardless of intention, it's not a pedigree cat if it's crossed, and if I didn't want a pedigree cat I'd go to a rescue and get a moggie there, there's plenty about.

And there you have the reason why I quote!

Because I was quoting Bio Hazard who had bought a cat that was a cross between 2 pedigree cats, not a pedigree and a moggie.

My stance is still the same as my first answer, which was that if the cross was done by a respected breeder of 2 pedigree cats and the kitten was sold in the same manner as a pedigree cat, then I would pay a larger sum. If it was by a random breeder, whatever the cross was and being sold at 6-8 weeks without any blood tests, then I wouldn't pay any more than I would pay for a 'normal' moggie kitten.

It's not a pedigree cat if it's crossed with a moggie or an unpermitted outcross, but in the eyes of the Cat Fancy if it's crossed with a permitted outcross in a controlled breeding programme, it is a pedigree cat, but is referred to as a variant.

ETA Just read Toyah's post and I agree with you totally Toyah! Somalis all the way!

*but an odd Siamese is good too!*

[toyah]

Originally Posted by KathyM

Regardless of intention, it's not a pedigree cat if it's crossed, and if I didn't want a pedigree cat I'd go to a rescue and get a moggie there, there's plenty about.

It is a pedigree cat, if its ancestory is known and registered. It's a pedigree - but not a purebred. Cats tend to be referred to as pedigree rather than purebred because there are allowed outcrosses.

(Bengal cross moggie is allowed in TICA, it would be 3-4 generations before the offspring are "full register" Bengal again though. It's also a foundation mating for the Toyger breed - so yes, allowed there too).

[KathyM]

I wouldn't count a siamese x oriental litter as a crossbreed, they're the same breed just different colours. I'm sure its the same with some other breeds where the same cat in a different colour is classed as a seperate breed. Far too confusing for me lol. I wasn't disputing your reasons Feorag, I would've quoted Biohazard had he/she quoted me correctly. Even from a respectable breeder for the purposes you describe, I wouldn't pay more than I would for a "moggie" from a rescue with the same amount of money put in, and then I'd know I was helping rescue too.

[feorag]

All Maine Coons are bred from 'lookalike' moggies! because the breed died out in the 1900s, so when it was decided to 'revive' it people just picked up street cats that looked like Coons and bred them to a standard until they had the Coons they have today.

During the world wars when petrol was rationed, and there were very few Abys about people bred them to tabby moggies to keep the breed going, otherwise it would have died out.

So it was done a lot 50 plus years ago, but done for a reason - to preserve a dying or minority breed.

[KathyM]

Originally Posted by toyah

It is a pedigree cat, if its ancestory is known and registered. It's a pedigree - but not a purebred. Cats tend to be referred to as pedigree rather than purebred because there are allowed outcrosses.

(Bengal cross moggie is allowed in TICA, it would be 3-4 generations before the offspring are "full register" Bengal again though. It's also a foundation mating for the Toyger breed - so yes, allowed there too).

Semantics really, pedigree vs purebreeds. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[feorag]

Totally agree about the Siamese/Oriental thing. The problem is that in cat breeds, especially Persians and British, they are all the same cat, but given their breed name by their colour, so all the colours are there behind them to be bred from - that's not considered to be outcrossing at all.

[KathyM]

Yes. However, I would never consider a bengal x moggie as a cat worth more in initial outlay than a crossbreed, as it is a crossbreed cat regardless of whether it can be registered.

[feorag]

Exactly what I said, I wouldn't either!

But then I don't show or register TiCA.

[catastrophyrat]

Trouble is it gets complicated because although Orientals are Siamese in a different colour overcoat over the years the 2 types have become different as Siamese became more angular etc and now you have 'Old Fashioned Siamese ' too and a lot of Siamese breeders are very anti Orientals in their lines -or at least they were years ago when i was part of the fancy.

[mattm]

I have to say I agree with what Toyah said about pedigree Vs purebred, I don't actually think it is a matter of opinion - they have different meanings.

A purebred animal is one where its lineage has been "pure" i.e. it has only been created through breeding the same breed to the same breed for quite a few generations. Obviously a purebred animal is usually also a pedigreed animal.

But a pedigreed animal is one where it's genetic background can be traced for certain generations, regardless of what those animals are in the background. I can have a pedigree moggy, if I know what his parents are, their parents are, and their parents are and so on...it has a pedigree. But it wouldn't then be purebred.