anti-rodent farm petition

[Zoo-Man]

Originally Posted by Pimperella

isn't it true that you take all the new owners details of any pet you sell as standard tho? So you have all their details, address and phone number?

I know the answer to this hun already lol I know it's a yes.

And Arthur has some bloody gorgeous Rex's dosen't he!! lol

Thats right Pimp, we take th details of anyone buying livestock.

And yes, Arthur is brill! His rabbits are top-notch!

[mattm]

I don't see what is so special about that, it is now the law that details of name/address etc should be taken upon the sale of any live animal through a commercial establishment.

My breeder will take back any rodents that do not sell & grow too big for sale, or any that might be brought back for whatever reason by the customer. Thats a good breeder in my eyes!

Not necessarily, that might be good from your point of view but what does s/he do with them when they get them back?

I don't like rodent farms but I won't sign the petition for many reasons, partly because I think it will be ineffective and secondly because as a reptile owner, I can sympathize with those that need to obtain frozen rodents easily (although I personally do not use rodent farm bred rodents for my reptiles).

Out of interest Zoo-Man, what % of your breeders are active members of a breed/club authority?? I am not saying that only good breeders are members of such clubs, I am just genuinely interested. A lot of people within these circuits would not admit to selling to pet shops yet they very much do!

[KathyM]

Originally Posted by Zoo-Man

My breeder will take back any rodents that do not sell & grow too big for sale, or any that might be brought back for whatever reason by the customer. Thats a good breeder in my eyes!

Simon's Rodents offer this service. They still send the shops pregnant and ill animals. I've had the fallout here. I would be interested to know what would've happened to the four does I took that didn't sell at the petshop, that were 4 months old when they got there if they were a day. One had nine ill babies from not being seperated before being sent to the shop, one had chronic mycoplasma infection, all four had lice and had never been handled. If they'd have gone back they'd have been killed, simple as. And considering how inhumanely they obviously kept these rats, I wouldn't trust them to kill them humanely either. If people want to support that sort of ill treatment of animals in the name of cheap food, you're right that no petition will change that. I would prefer to know which shops use these places though so I can never give them money.

[LisaLQ]

So does your breeder/Arthur check up on their health and temperament throughout their lives, and make breeding decisions based on that?

Fair enough you might be able to get in touch with him - which is one step better than a rodent farm, but still not ideal if he's not prepared to chase people up himself.

He could be breeding rats riddled with cancer and temperament problems and not know a thing unless the owners complained. And if they dont get his details given out as standard, that's unlikely. But then - it's good business for the pet shops, right, as they'll come back and buy some more!

Fair dos, his animals might be nice to look at, but do you know the long term health of all of the ones you've sold for him? Does he? How about behavioural problems? Has he made breeding choices based on feedback from owners? Does he have a contract which states all animals must come back to him if circumstances change and they need rehoming? What age does he bring them in, are they kept in mixed sexes, have there ever been any accidents leading to males and females being in together and sold possibly pregnant?

[Pimperella]

Originally Posted by LisaLQ

So does your breeder/Arthur check up on their health and temperament throughout their lives, and make breeding decisions based on that?

Fair enough you might be able to get in touch with him - which is one step better than a rodent farm, but still not ideal if he's not prepared to chase people up himself.

He could be breeding rats riddled with cancer and temperament problems and not know a thing unless the owners complained. And if they dont get his details given out as standard, that's unlikely. But then - it's good business for the pet shops, right, as they'll come back and buy some more!

Fair dos, his animals might be nice to look at, but do you know the long term health of all of the ones you've sold for him? Does he? How about behavioural problems? Has he made breeding choices based on feedback from owners? Does he have a contract which states all animals must come back to him if circumstances change and they need rehoming? What age does he bring them in, are they kept in mixed sexes, have there ever been any accidents leading to males and females being in together and sold possibly pregnant?

Arthur happens to have been breeding rabbits for 50 years!! Not rats. Proves you don't read posts cause Zooman said this quite clearly.
Not just that he has some of the best show winning rex rabbits. He knows more than you could ever forget. He knows his lines inside and out. So he has no need to check up on them, being as he has does and bucks of his own lines that are 13 and 14 years old and still going strong!
So really, before you start spouting off you should really have asked in a far better manner than you did. But your brief time you've been breeding rats, you know everything don't you and god forbid someone should have a different opinion to yours lol

[LisaLQ]

It's my opinion, one that's shared by many - not just a whim I've made up myself. The majority of good breeders would agree that information back from their owners is vitally important.

Just because his rabbits have survived doesn't mean that his owners ones have! It's basic common sense.

You always have to turn something into a fight, dont you Pimps.

[Pimperella]

Originally Posted by LisaLQ

It's my opinion, one that's shared by many - not just a whim I've made up myself. The majority of good breeders would agree that information back from their owners is vitally important.

Just because his rabbits have survived doesn't mean that his owners ones have! It's basic common sense.

You always have to turn something into a fight, dont you Pimps.

Well yes, when your slagging off one of the top rabbit breeders in the country. He has a lengthy track record of his rabbits.
but you will go round slagging people off when you haven't any basis for it.

[LisaLQ]

I didnt slag anyone off - I asked about his breeding ethics, something anyone buying from a breeder or interested in a breeder should do.

It's you who's got all defensive and started bitching - tell me - is there a reason why you're so defensive about those who sell in pet shops? Educate me as to how wonderful it is!

[Pimperella]

Originally Posted by LisaLQ

I didnt slag anyone off - I asked about his breeding ethics, something anyone buying from a breeder or interested in a breeder should do.

It's you who's got all defensive and started bitching - tell me - is there a reason why you're so defensive about those who sell in pet shops? Educate me as to how wonderful it is!

Nar, No more room up on my Pedistal. I'm athelicly built so it didn't need to be big and it's invite only dear.

Fact being you jump in with YOUR opinions withourt actualy having asked. Since as I am getting pm's appaulding me for having told you so, you don't have the support that you think.
You are blanket judgement, I however, judge things on a case by case basis.
Your blinkered by your own bloody minded opinions. I take the time to actually read peoples posts so much as to know the difference between a rat and a rabbit.

[LisaLQ]

Who said I was even replying about the rabbits - I was asking about livestock in general, and then spoke of how I'd home my rats out and what I'd class as a good rat breeder.

I'm not on a pedestal, I just want to know how someone can assure the health and temperament of their lines when they dont know what happens to 90% of them.

It's you who's got all defensive - so you get pms thanking you for having a go at people who disagree with you? So what - that just proves how much of a bully you are. Well done - clap clap - we all bow down to you, we must agree with Big Pimperella Brother folks - heaven forbid you have a different view, you're well open to insult and bitching.

Christs sake - listen to yourself. I'm now allowed an opinion on good breeding ethics because you've bred longer than I have? Whoohoo - I'd rather breed for one year well than for 25 years poorly.