KC or not KC?

[ownedbyroxy]

Hypothetically, if you were to BUY a pup from a breeder (not rescue one), would you go for a KC pup or a non-KC pup?

Just a general question really.
A friend is seeking a lab but only interested in KC.
I've never had a KC dog. Generally because a mongerel, or un KC reg dog (like my whippet) have sort of fallen into my lap.

Do you believe that KC means good genes / perfect dog etc.
I'm aware you can trace back generations, to see who's who and health tests etc.
Do you think it's worth spending the money on the papers if you don't intend to show / breed for them to just sit in a drawer?
If you don't intend to breed or show, is KC really important?
If so, why?

[Emmaj]

my 3 huskies are all KC reg

I would rather go for a KC reg dog as you get family history as well as knowing the parents health tests too

[Shell195]

Ive got KC registered dogs I bought and un KC registered dogs I acquired.
If buying a pedigree pup or kitten I would like it to be registered and for the parents to have had the relevant health tests

[biohazard156]

We bought our first ever puppy this year back in June and we are not interested in showing or breeding from him, but we still wanted to get a KC registered animal as we now know his family history, his parents health tests and got his paperwork and insurance and much advice from the breeder.
I am more willing to hand over hundreds of pounds for an animal if these things have been done, than to hand over the same amount of cash to someone thinking they can breed their dogs and make no such effort.

[pigglywiggly]

i always go for kc for the reasons listed above.

theres soooo many puppies for sale bred from parents who have two litters a year so they cant be registered,

or what i find a bit scary, from dogs endorsed not for breeding - there could be a medical reason why and i sure am not going to take the risk.

[ownedbyroxy]

This is basically mainly the reasons why my friend is insisting on a KC lab puppy. She doesn't want a resuce as it will be for working so wants to bring it up for that purpose.
She also said about the endorsed parents, parents bred from constantly and if she's going to pay a months wage on a pup, she'd rather spend the extra on a KC one with great background and breeders.

I just wondered what your opinions were. Like i said my whippet bitch isn't registered. But she chose us rather than us choosing her. And i've never bought a dog before her. They were all parents dogs that i'd grown up with or 'preloved' dogs. (not the website).
I would love and Italian Spinone, but they are rarely in rescue. So willl be from a breeder, most likely KC reg.

[mattm]

I would go for KC over non-KC if the breeder was also KC accredited they are different things. An accredited breeder must agree to carry out certain hereditary health checks, for example. Whereas pretty much anyone can breed a litter of KC registered puppies from KC registered parents .

Do you believe that KC means good genes / perfect dog etc.

No, it most definitely doesn't. There are excellent lines and breeders that do not wish to affiliate themself with the Kennel Club for various reasons, but obviously they are harder to find.

Do you think it's worth spending the money on the papers if you don't intend to show / breed for them to just sit in a drawer?

I do, if they're also accredited like I said . Most serious, reputable breeders do wish to be a part of the KC anyway, but not all.

If you don't intend to breed or show, is KC really important?

Not particularly, but you'll have a heck of a time finding a breeder/litter that is of excellent quality (well bred, good breeder ethics, parents of puppies have had appropriate health tests depending on the breed) that isn't KC registered, if that makes sense.

The most important thing is that you are happy with the breeder, the puppies, the conditions, the parents of the puppies and the way in which they were bred. Also that relevant health tests have been carried out. KC papers are secondry to that.

[fenwoman]

Originally Posted by ownedbyroxy

Hypothetically, if you were to BUY a pup from a breeder (not rescue one), would you go for a KC pup or a non-KC pup?

Just a general question really.
A friend is seeking a lab but only interested in KC.
I've never had a KC dog. Generally because a mongerel, or un KC reg dog (like my whippet) have sort of fallen into my lap.

Do you believe that KC means good genes / perfect dog etc.
I'm aware you can trace back generations, to see who's who and health tests etc.
Do you think it's worth spending the money on the papers if you don't intend to show / breed for them to just sit in a drawer?
If you don't intend to breed or show, is KC really important?
If so, why?

I voted non KC. KC does not mean a good breeder, nor that the kennel club makes any checks, nor that the pup will come from health tested parents who are sound in mind and limb. In fact plenty KC reg dogs are not. I know an animal welfare officer who contacted the KC when a GSD breeder was prosecuted recently and she discovered registration papers for puppies to a bitch who had apparently had a previous litter of pups earlier than month!!!
When she called the KC to report it, they replied that there was nothing they could do. It was up to breeders to give accurate details. KC reg doesn't mean a bitch is only bred so many times in her life as many puppy farmers register a non existant bitch pup and do turn and turn about, registering one litter to the mother, then 6 months later to the daughter which doesn't exist. Anyone who tells you that KC reg ensures a quality pup from quality parents, is totally naive.
KC registration only ensures that you can show your dog in KC shows. KC reg doesn't even guarantee that the pedigree itself is accurate, nor can it guarantee that the pup is even purebred, since litters get registered with no checks at all being made on them. I personally have taken in dogs purporting to be purebred when it was obvious they were nothing like.
Tell your firend to do her homework. Decide whether she wants show/pet type, or working type. The working type will be less 'pretty' and more hyperactive. Then start calling breeders and asking about things like hip scoring. Don't just take the breeder's word either. Ask to see the proper score certificates. Pleanty puppy famrers will give the right answers and say yes they have been tested, without the tests being done. If they have lost or misplaced the certificate, then accept that they are lying and go elsewhere. Finding the right puppy should take some time. Phoning breeders and asking questions, and also expecting questions to be asked of her. If she finds someone who isn't interested in the sort of home she can offer the puppy, she should carry on looking. I speak not only as a dog owner, but as someone who occasionally breeds puppies. I would never let one of my precious babies go unless I'd asked all kinds of questions to make myself happy that it would be going to a sensible, kind, permanent home. HTH

[fenwoman]

Originally Posted by ownedbyroxy

This is basically mainly the reasons why my friend is insisting on a KC lab puppy. She doesn't want a resuce as it will be for working so wants to bring it up for that purpose.
She also said about the endorsed parents, parents bred from constantly and if she's going to pay a months wage on a pup, she'd rather spend the extra on a KC one with great background and breeders.

I just wondered what your opinions were. Like i said my whippet bitch isn't registered. But she chose us rather than us choosing her. And i've never bought a dog before her. They were all parents dogs that i'd grown up with or 'preloved' dogs. (not the website).
I would love and Italian Spinone, but they are rarely in rescue. So willl be from a breeder, most likely KC reg.

ahhhhh so she won't need it to be KC reg in any case then. She needs to be looking for one from FT lines and many FT dogs are not registered. They have no need to be since they are totally different to pet/show types.Her bst means of finding a good FT lab is to buy a copy of horse and hound or 'the countryman' or farmer's weekly since people who shoot will have good working labs. They have zero interest in how a dog looks (and the KC is only interested in how a dog looks ) and the most important thing will be how it performs as a gundog. Well bred working labs may cost more than a month's wages. Some go for thousands of £££ and I know one chap who bought a black lab pup from the top FTCH bitch by a top dog, and paid £5000 and considered it a bargain.Nor was it KC registered. As he said, he wasn't interested in how many red rosettes it picked up, more how many pheasants it picked up.

[ownedbyroxy]

Originally Posted by fenwoman

.Her bst means of finding a good FT lab is to buy a copy of horse and hound or 'the countryman' or farmer's weekly since people who shoot will have good working labs. They have zero interest in how a dog looks (and the KC is only interested in how a dog looks ) and the most important thing will be how it performs as a gundog.

I recommended farmers weekly and horse and hound. Plus a gundog website.

Originally Posted by fenwoman

I voted non KC. KC does not mean a good breeder, nor that the kennel club makes any checks, nor that the pup will come from health tested parents who are sound in mind and limb. In fact plenty KC reg dogs are not.
HTH

Thanks for taking the time to write those tips. Will pass them onto her.
Can i just ask. Do you think some people think that KC means 'sound pups' and that they're the best of the best?
if you have say 7 seven pups in a litter, there are always going to be some better than others. But all will be registered.
Another friend had a litter of GSD's about 5 yrs ago. She had 11. All were registered and endorsed and went to loving homes. However a few yrs later she heard on the grapevine that one of them had been bred from despite the endorsements. She approached the owner and gave a lecture and was told that if she lifted the endorsements on the bitch so they could be registered they would let her have a pup half price! (as if it was a pair of faulty shoes).

She's very specific who gets one of her pups. She won't let me have one as i have a child under 5 and live on a busy road.
just goes to show i suppose that not everybody is as they seem.