Dog Training Woes

[HABU]

people don't have the time to train their own dogs these days?

and how does one know if the dog is trained the way the owner wants?

dog training... who trains the owners?

[LoveForLizards]

Originally Posted by Caz

If you're interested i'll pm it to you?

That's funny. When did Dog training become about secrecy?

[pippainnit]

Yeah PM me please, thank you.

I know they're specialised in PP dogs etc. I'd just 'enrolled' onto the six week basic training classes, primarily for lead training and socialising - the latter of which obviously doesn't seem to be happening.

As for the recall today - they lined the dogs and owners against one end of the enclosed field. My partner went to the other side and then they let Willit off while my partner attempted to call him. Willit did go bombing down towards him but then of course got distracted by all the other dogs that he'd previously been playing with and then went over to them. He just seemed really confused by the whole afternoon to be honest. One minute he's off lead playing with the others and being allowed to run around, the next he's walking on his lead, then he's let off his lead and not allowed to go towards the dogs he was initially playing with, then there was a final socialisation bit and he was then punished for 'dominating' another dog when he was just playing really.

I know I'm very much an amateur with all of this but even I know to be dubious and question the methods used, and like someone else said earlier - Willit's got a great temperament with all dogs and people and maybe I am being slightly melodramatic but since the incident with the bullmastiff and being jabbed/punched for just playing with another dog... well he hasn't been himself!

[Caz]

Originally Posted by LoveForLizards

That's funny. When did Dog training become about secrecy?

Not secret at all - just long winded to type out and if they don't want it then would save me 30 mins typing!

[pippainnit]

Originally Posted by HABU

people don't have the time to train their own dogs these days?

and how does one know if the dog is trained the way the owner wants?

dog training... who trains the owners?

That's the thing - they did keep reiterating about how we're training owners as well as dogs etc.

Has anyone else had any direct experience with this company? I very much went into this with an open mind but certainly don't want regressive behaviour.

[marthaMoo]

You need to walk away from them.

I looked into them for a dog I rehomed, they soon smelt very bad to me. And after a long chat with the dogs owner who had also spoken to them we decided there was no way in hell we were using them as there methods were not positive (stones in bottles, different collars, aggresive behaviour towards dogs)

If you can travell further afield for training I have a friend in the Cardiff area.

I personally would of kicked him in the balls for showing dominant behaviour to my dog.

[Caz]

Ok here's what I do. It's never failed for me (inc' Malamutes) if done properly.

Buy a dog whistle. You can use a specific command but make sure it is a specific word - perhaps in another language to stop you using it around the dog otherwise.
Whistles (I've found) work best for the 'hard to recall' breeds.

Then cook liver in the oven with some garlic. Chop liver into small 1cm square 'treat' cubes.
Only use this for recall. Nothing else. Ever.

Day 1&2 - only to be done IN the house - not on walks etc.
Carry a small plastic bag of liver on you. Randomly but no more often than every hour or so throughout the days, when standing in front or next to your dog at a very close distance whistle or command (you don't have to look at the dog) and give the treat within 3 seconds of the command. Any longer and you've lost their concentration on the whistle or command. You're not expecting your dog to do anything at this point other than hear and get a treat.

By the end of day 2 on the command your dog should be looking at you as the treat is given.

Day 3-5 carry on the same IN the house. Now command/whistle while in the same room as your dog but a few feet away. Once every 2 hours at the most. Make sure you give that treat within 3 seconds, so reaching distance at first. Don't throw the treat to your dog.

By the end of day 5 your dog should be coming at you fast on command/whistle for the treat.

Day 6-9 Keep going inside the house. You're now ready to use the command/whistle while out of site - just the other side of the door way to another room perhaps. Keep this up a few times per day at random intervals. Always treat on arrival of your dog.

Don't multiple call or whistle. If the dog doesn't come, ignore the fact and pretend it never happened. One call/whistle should be enough.

Days 10-14. Keep going with it but move into the garden and further round the house. Let the dog find you. Make it a great game. Use the same treat. No multiple commands or whistles still!

Don't be tempted to skip forward. If you miss days then move back a step.

After day 14 your dog should come on command/whistle. Always treat with the liver cooked in garlic when it does. Now you're ready to try it outside on a walk - use the same principles as the indoor training esp' with hard to recall breededs - lots of interesting things outside!

Hope this helps someone.

[feorag]

Originally Posted by Shell195

If someone punched my dog in the ribs I would punch their lights out
Find yourself another trainer before he turns your lovely boy into a gibbering wreck

Have to agree!

Originally Posted by pippainnit

I couldn't see directly what way the trainer's hand was held out but it was a definite 'jab'/punch to the ribs if nothing else. Enough to make the dog jump back y'know.

I suspect this would have been a sharp jab to the side/ribs with the thumb and 4 fingers straight and all held together in a group. I think the idea is that it 'mimics's the mother's correction for bad behaviour and it would have made your dog jump because he wouldn't have seen it coming and would have got more of a shock than a pain -I think, !!

Of course I wasn't there to see it, but I do know some dog trainers who deal with aggressive dogs do use this method.

[rakpeterson]

I cant read the whole thread so sorry if im covering old ground.

Firstly your trainer is correct in what he said about husky types not making good pets. He's not insulting you or your dog.

Many animals we all keep dont make good pets.

I dont think any of the experienced husky type owners on here would disagree, or would you??

They are high maintanence in all respects, be it grooming, training, temprement etc. Basically not what a good pet is.

The company are predominantly security/protection dog trainers and because of this, rightly or wrongly, their methods will differ from a trainer who specializes in 'pets'. No paticular reason for it other than the types of people who are involved in the differing areas.

Most training schools like this will have a much more direct, tough, no s**t approach, thats the kind of people they are and it is reflected in their methods. Many are now a bit 'old skool' now and still subscribe to pretty outdated dominance theory, that said they are good at what they do and have trained many good dogs, which im sure they will show you if you ask.

I do not believe the trainer 'punched' your dog. Are you sure thats what you saw?

If you did definately see this then obviously dont return and also report them. They will be in a lot of trouble and will, if it could be proved, lose any approved status they have with the relevant associations, i think they are approved by all the leading associations.

This is why I think you have misinterpreted what you saw. These people arent stupid. They are a respected company with good rep. and I cant see them doing something like this, they would lose everyhing should i come to light. I for one, and several other people I know, would be very appauled by this and they would lose business as a result.

As far as the bull mastiff incident goes, its a tough one to deal with. Personally i would not of had the bull in with the rest of the class, and the fact it was muzzled means someone knew it was a risk. But then what do you do? Your dog needs to be around other dogs for socialization and the bull needs some amount of contact to try to sort the aggression issues.

Personally I would not train in a group, only 1 on 1, and the dog would be socialized by me, around dogs that I have chosen to introduce, wether that is a pre arranged intro or after watching another dog you come across for a few minutes to guage its behaviour and the risks.

Lastly the recall. Personally I believe any breed can be taught recall, they are all capable grasping the concept, understanding what is being asked, but that does not mean the dog will actually do it when you say.

Thats the thing with dog training and trainers. They all have their own methods and beliefs, most neither right or wrong, they all follow a basic concept but with differant ways of achieveing it.

Hope this makes sense, just finishing up a night shift, eyes all blurry!!!

[rakpeterson]

Last thing, just seen its only your second session.

Think your hopes are to high.

unless you are certain he punched your dog, go back, do some more sessions.

I very much doubt any body their expected your dog to recall after only two sessions, that would just be ridiculous. Its understandable for him to be getting a bit confused. One minute he's playing about, the next he's being jabbed in the ribs, then screamed at from the end of the training ground, all whilst his new found friends are beckoning from the other side.

Needs time, patience and consistancy.

ps one last thing. maybe im just being funny but I would be careful about what you say about companies on here. All this thread will flag up on google if someone searches the company, and if it were me, assuming i had not punched any dogs, I would be extremely pissed and looking to do something about it. Would not be the first time the forum has come the wrong side of lible laws, plus your trainer is going to be pretty annoyed next week if he were to see it lol !!!!!!!