Hamm Deaths

[Dextersdad]

I'd never get a bloody bus to an event so far away anyhow. Wouldn't risk it myself. Exposure too high and prolonged.

[Tops]

I think you would be much better off splitting the cost and driving with someone/anyone than going on a coach. For the comfort factor if nothing else.

And not listening to Niges snoring... I hear its legendary..

[Living Rain]

Originally Posted by LEXCORN

Well said Steve,

We travel over to Houten & Hamm incorporating a small vacation staying with relatives. But would not hesitate to travel with Brian Davies were it not for family commitments.

Trouble is that everyone wants something cheaper & the plain fact is "you get what you pay for".

Sad to say that the animals payed the ultimate price here.

Regards. Lex

Thanks Lex,
Usually i just read and don't say much, but with the way people where treated - threatend etc had to say a line or two.

Bring back the caring coach trips - COME ON BRIAN .

Steve

Originally Posted by Issa

Congrats on the result, but I bet this thread ends up deleted or heavily edited before I get back from work tonight.

Hope not, about time the truth stays up for everyone to see as although peoples pockets have suffered - it's the death of animals that is the important point here.

Steve

[SSamm]

well last visit the animals were with us and we could check every couple of hours, was really good

[Mush]

I think people should keep their opinion to themselves in this matter to be honest.

the op told of the outcome of the proceedings and therefore this matter has been dealt with and has highlighted thatthe buyers are the ones who need to take a bit more responsibility.

The thing is any animal can die in transit, wether its 20 miles or 200, especially froma show, you have no idea of its past

[tarantulabarn]

Further to a mediated agreement last week, I would like to clarify a few points.

1) Mediation instigated by the organisers was based upon the issue of responsibility and liability for Animal welfare.

2) Discussion took place as to the events of that trip, actions that were or were not taken and the end results.

3) It was part of the mediation, that it was recognised that Coachtotheshow has never advertised its services as a reptile courier, in fact that we discouraged the commercial transportation, and that whilst we were, and still are, authorised to transport animals commercially (as individuals) this we do not extend to the coach trips due to the duration of some parts of the travel.

4) It was pointed out that the coaches DID stop on route, but we did concede that some passengers may have been unaware of the ability to check animals, but further pointed out that none asked to do so. We also pointed out that whilst we thought our procedures were sufficient, we had already changed them to ensure passengers where aware, and do have plenty of chances to check animals on route.

5) As part of the agreement, the plaintiff accepted that the responsibility and thus the liability for Animal welfare was indeed that of the passenger and not the organisers.

6) The Plaintiff accepted our request, that he would make his acceptance of point 2, public by way of posts on two reptile related forums that we selected, despite his questioning if this would be a good idea.

7) Once mediation had resolved the responsibility issue, we were happy to discuss ways that the plaintiff could find closure to the issue. After a number of attempts, our final offer was that of a pair of tickets on our next trip or the cash alternative to a pair of tickets on the trip the plaintiff was on.

This offer was made strictly as an alternative to coach tickets and not as any form as compensation, and this fact is recorded in the terms of mediation.

9) Subject to the completion of the agreed terms, the court hearing instigated by the plaintiff for 'Breach of contract' shall stand dismissed.

10) The above agreement is summarised and documented in the settlement agreement document provided by the mediation service. We will NOT be releasing this document into the public domain in observance of the confidentiality of all parties and the mediation service.

So, to summarise:

We have NOT paid any compensation for the deaths of any animals, as none would be payable due to the animal responsibility issue noted above, and agreed upon by both parties.

An offer of Tickets, or the cash alternative was made and accepted by the plaintiff.

Any court action by the plaintiff will stand dismissed as a result of this mediation.

The lessons:

Passengers do need to take responsibility for their animals, both morally and legally.

As organisers, we have always accepted that buying animals is a distinct possibility on our trips, and that the arrangements we had made need to be improved upon.

We have already taken on many of the constructive suggestions to ensure even better enjoyment of the trip and higher survival rates, although the very nature of the trips involve risks, both before, during and afterwards.

For our part, we will continue to endeavour to ensure the best possible welfare conditions are available for our passengers to take advantage of, within the constraints of the trip, and will endeavour to ensure those passengers who do purchase animals are made aware of the conditions and are encouraged to make use of them.

We will also endeavour to make clearer the role of the passenger in the care of their animals and to clarify that we are not animal couriers and that Coachtotheshow does not represent itself as being such.

[missk]

Originally Posted by tarantulabarn

3) It was part of the mediation, that it was recognised that Coachtotheshow has never advertised its services as a reptile courier, in fact that we discouraged the commercial transportation, and that whilst we were, and still are, authorised to transport animals commercially (as individuals) this we do not extend to the coach trips due to the duration of some parts of the travel.

this point in particular interests me because I believe a courier service for animals from Hamm to the purchasers door was offered on another forum by coach to the show organisers. Surely therefore you DO advocate them as a means of reptile couriering? Or that service would not be offered?


http://************reptileforum.com/...setc-hamm.html


Confused....

[tarantulabarn]

Originally Posted by missk

this point in particular interests me because I believe a courier service for animals from Hamm to the purchasers door was offered on another forum by coach to the show organisers. Surely therefore you DO advocate them as a means of reptile couriering? Or that service would not be offered?


http://************reptileforum.com/...setc-hamm.html


Confused....

as that link doesnt work i have copied it

Now you can buy that beautyful morph, direct from the breeder and have it hand delivered to your door.

Deal direct with the breeder, dont pay delivery until your new pet arrives !

Collection from Hamm and delivery to you for £45 anywhere in England. (Scotland and wales by quote)

Take a look at whats on offer at Geckos Etc. Herpetoculture - High Quality, Healthy Leopard and Knobtail Geckos


A post made by purejurassic,(much the same as loads of other offers of collection made by many members) NOT COACH TO THE SHOW, His offer, His service, His resposibility

[missk]

That's funny since he also made a thread directly promoting coach to the show. If you actively discourage the use of the coach as a means of coiriering why allow this ad?

[tarantulabarn]

If any passengers decide to bring animals back, and believe it or not only about 60% do, then they can, provided they stick to the rules regarding the transport of animals, which incidently are not our rules