Breeder Shows - is our house in order

[Slurm]

Theres a lot going on with reptile shows at the moment so I thought it would be good for me to get something off my chest:-

I have been to a few shows this year where its clear the breeders are not hobbyists, Why would a hobbyist need 2 tables for livestock and have the tables stacked high with reptiles?
Also having businesses selling dry goods between hobbyists does make it look like a commercial "market" perhaps we should think about separating the 2.

The lines between private Hobbyist and commercial breeder have become very blurred, but that should not mean we should stop policing them.

When a breeder imports animals to sell on, then they cease to be a hobbyist.
When a breeder sell his livestock on a commercial scale to pet shops he ceases to be a hobbyist.
When a Breeder runs a business or makes a living from his breeding then he ceases to be a hobbyist.

These shows are about making sales, let be honest, but sales for me mean covering some of the costs not profit.

We as a group should say yes AR and other groups may well be short sighted, uninformed and just plain wrong but we have become blind/complacent to some of the actions we should not allow.

Let ensure our hobby/family is allowed to continue by ensuring we are not opening ourselves to further criticism.

[penfold]

Originally Posted by Slurm

Theres a lot going on with reptile shows at the moment so I thought it would be good for me to get something off my chest:-

I have been to a few shows this year where its clear the breeders are not hobbyists, Why would a hobbyist need 2 tables for livestock and have the tables stacked high with reptiles?
Also having businesses selling dry goods between hobbyists does make it look like a commercial "market" perhaps we should think about separating the 2.

The lines between private Hobbyist and commercial breeder have become very blurred, but that should not mean we should stop policing them.

When a breeder imports animals to sell on, then they cease to be a hobbyist.
When a breeder sell his livestock on a commercial scale to pet shops he ceases to be a hobbyist.
When a Breeder runs a business or makes a living from his breeding then he ceases to be a hobbyist.

These shows are about making sales, let be honest, but sales for me mean covering some of the costs not profit.

We as a group should say yes AR and other groups may well be short sighted, uninformed and just plain wrong but we have become blind/complacent to some of the actions we should not allow.

Let ensure our hobby/family is allowed to continue by ensuring we are not opening ourselves to further criticism.

all you do is moan that you cant get tables at shows because the rest of us are comercial breeders i do the shows i work full time as does my better half come to my house see my hobby and the 2 rooms it fills as well as our other animals ,hawks ,ferrets ,etc etc im a full time hobbyist so stop moaning

[GlasgowGecko]

Originally Posted by Slurm

When a breeder sell his livestock on a commercial scale to pet shops he ceases to be a hobbyist.

Whilst I agree in principle with what you are saying, this one is a sticking point for me. There will be a great many small time breeders, bearded dragons and corn snakes in particular, that have no real choice but to sell to pet shops. Even if it is only a single cluth of animals per season (up to 30). Does this count as commercial? I'm not sure...

Its a very thin line, perhaps we should consider the total cost of the animals as a limiting factor. If you sell animals worth a total of £4000 per annum (arbitrary number here) then this is no longer 'hobbyist' breeding? Or if you have to declare for tax...

Andy

[Slurm]

Originally Posted by penfold

all you do is moan that you cant get tables at shows because the rest of us are comercial breeders i do the shows i work full time as does my better half come to my house see my hobby and the 2 rooms it fills as well as our other animals ,hawks ,ferrets ,etc etc im a full time hobbyist so stop moaning

So one previous post constitutes me moaning all the time does it?

Ive only not been able to do one show this year due to being booked out and cant say ive wasted too much time worrying about it.

go and troll somewhere else you have added nothing to the thread.

[Akua_Ko_Nalu]

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

Whilst I agree in principle with what you are saying, this one is a sticking point for me. There will be a great many small time breeders, bearded dragons and corn snakes in particular, that have no real choice but to sell to pet shops. Even if it is only a single cluth of animals per season (up to 30). Does this count as commercial? I'm not sure...

Its a very thin line, perhaps we should consider the total cost of the animals as a limiting factor. If you sell animals worth a total of £4000 per annum (arbitrary number here) then this is no longer 'hobbyist' breeding? Or if you have to declare for tax...

Andy

Very good points made, I'm sure only a very select few (if any!) of us actually make the £67k turn over to become VAT and Business Registered?!

I personally am a very keen Hobbyist Breeder, I still work full time, but keeping my collection is a full time commitment as well.

[Slurm]

I do see for hobbyists selling to a shop is a good outlet, whilst makes little money it does ensure that the animals will find a home and in most cases have a good temporary one. I was referring to breeders supplying half the countries shops.

[penfold]

but surely if you have your own web site that could be seen as becoming or trying to become comercial as the average hobbyist would not need a website ,pal

[excession]

Originally Posted by penfold

but surely if you have your own web site that could be seen as becoming or trying to become comercial as the average hobbyist would not need a website ,pal

I dont think simply having a website constitutes ambition to be come a commercial breeder.

It takes just a little time and less than a tenner to set up a website if you know what you are doing - and can be done by any amateur with the time to invest.

They are also fun and satisfying to set up

I think having a site to both show off collections as well as selling livestock is as appealing to the hobbyist as much as any commercial breeder.

[ccrew]

Originally Posted by Slurm

Theres a lot going on with reptile shows at the moment so I thought it would be good for me to get something off my chest:-

I have been to a few shows this year where its clear the breeders are not hobbyists, Why would a hobbyist need 2 tables for livestock and have the tables stacked high with reptiles?
Also having businesses selling dry goods between hobbyists does make it look like a commercial "market" perhaps we should think about separating the 2.

The lines between private Hobbyist and commercial breeder have become very blurred, but that should not mean we should stop policing them.

When a breeder imports animals to sell on, then they cease to be a hobbyist.
When a breeder sell his livestock on a commercial scale to pet shops he ceases to be a hobbyist.
When a Breeder runs a business or makes a living from his breeding then he ceases to be a hobbyist.

These shows are about making sales, let be honest, but sales for me mean covering some of the costs not profit.

We as a group should say yes AR and other groups may well be short sighted, uninformed and just plain wrong but we have become blind/complacent to some of the actions we should not allow.

Let ensure our hobby/family is allowed to continue by ensuring we are not opening ourselves to further criticism.

in your own kind of way you may be right in what you are saying very interesting that maybe people should think of it as such like you i think there should be a stuck price for gecko's if they breed its a hobby yes but the prices the reptiles go for their should only be a stuck price on the reptiles lets say for it to be a hobby £40 per reptile then commercial it can be anything shame not everyone is like you thank's for sharing

[Kev132]

you must of been trying to book your tables REALLY late... we booked our 2nd table at donny about 8 days before the show, cant really blame that on anyone other than yourself.

i agree partly with what your saying, but c'mon, you get 50 chams hatch in one go, and another 50 hatching 2-3 weeks later... your not going to have to sell alot on pretty fast.... no other way to get around that without supplying a fair few shops.... same with multiple species of high clutching animals.

number of tables booked is completelly irrelevant aswell, for example, our 2 tables where shared between 3 of us !

it simply comes down to profit, if your making profit/reasonable profit then its time to start thinking of classing yourself as a commercial breeder.