Zoo collections

[-EJ]

Tortoise Trust Web - Husbandry Pages of Shame
This was posted on another forum and it was brought to attention here in another post.

I addressed this post once before. I don't know if I addressed it here though.

Most of the Zoos that I'm acquainted with in the UK are privately funded. You can imagine money is tight and usually is funneled towards the 'warm and fuzzy' exhibits.

When I see reports like the above that is obviously taken out of context... it tends to make me a little angry.

The reason for this anger is I'm acquainted with a few keepers in the UK and I know the dilemma that they are faced with. I know the work and care they put into the animals and the pay they get for it. There is no way they do this job for the money so it obviously has to be because they care.

Then you get some back yard/keeper, who really does not have much insight into the politics and monetary resources, start slamming a collection based on one persons opinion and agenda.

I never followed up this particular article... I will.

The point is that this kind of pot stirring is wrong in my opinion. It is taken out of context and presented in a very narrow scope.

I'm curious as to how much research was done outside of the taking of the photos?

I'm posting this to see what some of the opinions are from this forum.

Ed

[larsselleth]

The picture shows different species together in one area. As I have read on many forums this is classed as bad practice.
If a specific place showing animals (At an attempt to make a profit) does not know the basic necessities of keeping a specific species, then surely they should not look after them. If they want to pile their limited resources into the warm and fuzzy section, then do not do it at the expense of another animals well being.
As a back yard keeper my opinion is that politics or money should not get in the way of the welfare of the creatures.
If a breeder was raided and the animals (any animals) were in bad condition, then "I couldnt afford it" is no excuse. EVER!

Lets go back to where this stems from, me reading a forum saying that everyone wants to meet up and have a nice day and a chin wag about torts. One person mentions a specific place has been shown to house tortoises incorrectly, finds photos of it and posts it.

TECHNICALLY im going to shoot myself in the foot here, but I dont mind admiting I am wrong. If I had not have shown what the TT had reported, and people had paid to go to DM then the zoo would have had more money than if the people had not of attended.
Although as stated the money appears to get diverted to the warm and fuzzy section of the zoo.

The employees do get paid a naff wage, and most zoo's rely on volunteers to work just so they can balance the books, save cash and spend it on giving the animals an environment as close to their natural habitat as possible.

Im off to feed me and Balders. Might save some for the misses too if she's lucky.
Im sure ill be back on later.

[Denis]

So sad. Those zoos need punishing

[-EJ]

There are many groups that do not advocate the mixing of species... the problem with those groups is that if you have a differance of opinion you are either bullied off or you are banned.

What this means is the other members get one side of the picture.

As far as diet goes... that is one snapshot. I would be very surprised if that was the diet those tortoises got throughout the year. As to an occasional feeding I see nothing wrong with that diet but I would have to ask what else they get fed.

The basic necessities of a long term captive tortoise are extremely simple and species factors in very little if the basic necessities are met.

Ed

Originally Posted by larsselleth

The picture shows different species together in one area. As I have read on many forums this is classed as bad practice.
If a specific place showing animals (At an attempt to make a profit) does not know the basic necessities of keeping a specific species, then surely they should not look after them. If they want to pile their limited resources into the warm and fuzzy section, then do not do it at the expense of another animals well being.
As a back yard keeper my opinion is that politics or money should not get in the way of the welfare of the creatures.
If a breeder was raided and the animals (any animals) were in bad condition, then "I couldnt afford it" is no excuse. EVER!

[-EJ]

Typical...

How about a nice donation with some offer of help?

Ed

Originally Posted by Denis

So sad. Those zoos need punishing

[Saedcantas]

Originally Posted by -EJ

Typical...

How about a nice donation with some offer of help?

Ed

!LOL!
Couldnt have responded better myself Ed.

Do the people "exposing" this stop to consider that perhaps these Zoo's have taken these animals on already often in that state or well along the way from members of the public?
That is often the case.
I personally feel the size of enclosures is really the main issue but how do we know these animals arent indoors on a rainy day? There is no contextual support for wholesale condemnation of these Zoo's.

Unfortunately all too often private keepers who think they have more of a conscience than to just release animals into waterways or fields take them to the nearest Zoo to drain their precious little funding.

The collection of sulcatas in too small quarters looks to me exactly like an assortment of donated animals already damaged from previous poor nutrition.

Nevermind eh.
Lotte***

[-EJ]

Thank you.

I was going to put exactly what you said in the post but was curious if it would come up in discussion or not. You hit every point square on the mark.

Ed

Originally Posted by Saedcantas

!LOL!
Couldnt have responded better myself Ed.

Do the people "exposing" this stop to consider that perhaps these Zoo's have taken these animals on already often in that state or well along the way from members of the public?
That is often the case.
I personally feel the size of enclosures is really the main issue but how do we know these animals arent indoors on a rainy day? There is no contextual support for wholesale condemnation of these Zoo's.

Unfortunately all too often private keepers who think they have more of a conscience than to just release animals into waterways or fields take them to the nearest Zoo to drain their precious little funding.

The collection of sulcatas in too small quarters looks to me exactly like an assortment of donated animals already damaged from previous poor nutrition.

Nevermind eh.
Lotte***

[sulcata2big]

ed you use any excuse to bash the tt, is there an issue of jealousy here

[-EJ]

Give it a rest. It has nothing to do with the TT. It is a post on the TT that keeps making it's way through the forums as bashing zoos and other tortoise keepers.

Unfortunately... as mentioned time and again... if the point is opposed it is silenced.

Where do you see me bashing the TT?

How about we be a little constructive and address the point... either for or against. You might provide a little evidence outside of those photos and the opinion of the TT to show your support for that group.

Ed

Originally Posted by sulcata2big

ed you use any excuse to bash the tt, is there an issue of jealousy here

[Dan]

The page is an absolute joke!

I'll talk about Example 2 (Cotswold Wildlife Park) as that's the one i have the closest ties to.

The photos, strangely, don't show the paddock those giants roam during the day (unless the weather is too bad), nor does it show the outdoor enclosure for the smaller animals. These outdoor areas are used most of the time, if used all the time they'd be on that page for allowing them out in snow!!

Worth noting that all torts on display there are donated adults, ie came in with those shells.

I know for a fact that they get better diet than most.

Now, "sulcata2big", while we're on the subject of jealousy. I would suggest that those behind these pages are the guilty ones here - i know of atleast one complaint that ended in "give them to us, we'll leave you alone and look after them then" (or words to that effect) for one establishment.