Vivariums and Terrariums Differences for Tortoises?

[Shell-shocker]

Hey all, this is my first ever question regarding tortoises. I'm hopefully going to keep them in a year or 2 time, but wanted to ask whats the difference in a Vivarium and Terrarium? Reason for asking this is because I've seen alot of people and articles saying that tortoises should live in a "Vivarium" and I've seen alot of shops that are selling tortoises in terrarium.

I've heard from alot of websites that Vivariums are a big NO NO.. so I researched and found this article that said no. Tortoise Trust Web - Indoor Housing & Vivarium Design

But now that I've heard tortoises are not really indoor pets so what to do? Would this then mean that tortoises are not really meant for english weather or wet and cold weathers. The tortoise I was thinking of getting is a Mediterranean tortoise or a Hermann's tortoise. But with this in my mind its quiet down sided. So how do people take care of tortoises with such bad weather conditions?

[v-max]

Originally Posted by Shell-shocker

Hey all, this is my first ever question regarding tortoises. I'm hopefully going to keep them in a year or 2 time, but wanted to ask whats the difference in a Vivarium and Terrarium? Reason for asking this is because I've seen alot of people and articles saying that tortoises should live in a "Vivarium" and I've seen alot of shops that are selling tortoises in terrarium.

I've heard from alot of websites that Vivariums are a big NO NO.. so I researched and found this article that said no. Tortoise Trust Web - Indoor Housing & Vivarium Design

But now that I've heard tortoises are not really indoor pets so what to do? Would this then mean that tortoises are not really meant for english weather or wet and cold weathers. The tortoise I was thinking of getting is a Mediterranean tortoise or a Hermann's tortoise. But with this in my mind its quiet down sided. So how do people take care of tortoises with such bad weather conditions?

A vivarium and a terrarium are essentially the same thing. An enclosed living space. Terraria origins are from plant enclosures, many green fingered types, over the years have used them for plant cultivation. A few years ago they became popular to also house reptiles - the natural plants were ideal for them. This side of the hobby isnt that commonplace in the UK, but elsewhere in the world, especially on the continent reptile keepers have beautifully planted terraria with lizards, frogs and the like - all living in a little microclimate.

I think you may need more help as to whether tortoises should be kept in either of the above, or an open top enclosure. There is much confusion on this topic, some say vivaria (or Terraria) are not suitable to tortoise keeping and they have to be in an open top enclosure called a tortoise table. In fact, confusion arises when the same people who write they are not suitable, then contradict themselves to later say they are suitable when confronted with the growing evidence to suggest vivaria are not as unsuitable as they have made out. I suggest either will work well, with, for a beginner, a slight preference to vivaria. There are lots of care details on here for you to follow, so I'll but out on further details. But wether you chose a table or vivaria make sure you do plent of research into diet, correct temperatures, etc etc. Its important to look at the whole picture rather than getting too bogged down with the worries about vivaria and tortoises.

If I can help further, please pm me. This debate can get a little passionate and it may be more useful if I can help you, that you contact me privately. Hope all that helps.

[annsimpson1]

I prefer tables but have tried a viv before and was unhappy with the amount of condensation/humidity and the fact that it seemed to warm/damp all over but maybe I had it set wrong, plus i like to see any animal/bird with as much space and fresh air that I can give, also the cost difference between a table and viv can be quite a lot and as most torts become to big to stay in the house, do very well outside for the summer, and hibernate for a few months that only leaves a few weeks when they would be in the house. Most houses have good heating and are plenty warm enough for a tort table but if you have a cold house then a viv might be a option but you really need to do as much research before deciding what is best for you, also have a look at where the torts would naturally live and the conditions/temps etc as that is what we are trying to replicate.

[incrisis]

The main difference between a vivarium and a terrarium is material used to make them and the depth of the base below the door opening.

Typically vivariums are made from wood with glass doors that more or less make up the entire front opening.

Terrariums are normally made entirely of glass and the doors are a few inches up from the bottom.

The reason for this is as mentioned in a previous post, terrariums were designed for people who want to grow plants indoors, usually plants that require more humidity. With the doors being higher up it allows you to fill the base with something to grow the plants in.

Terrariums are normally higher than vivariums to allow for upward growing.

It is possible to keep tortoises in either, terrarium design may be the better option as you can have a deeper substrate.

However there is the size/cost issue, as the tortoise grows it obviously needs more floor space and unless you want to spend quite a bit of money most vivariums or terrariums don't offer this. Which is where the totoise table comes in, it is a lot cheaper to construct a large enough table when it is too wet or cold to leave your tortoise outside.

However, in my experience, I have found it far easier to maintain adequate temperatures in a vivarium than a table, mainly due to how cold my house gets.

There is lots of information about indoor and outdoor housing, along with lots of information about the husbandry of tortoises.

You will find a lot of contradictory advice based on peoples own experiences and opinions, but don't let this put you off.
I find that reading about others experiences and opinions and then making your own informed decision on what will work best for you and the tortoise is the best way to go.

[Shell-shocker]

Thanks for the replies And just like "incrisis" I've got an issue with coldness in my house. So thats something I'm looking into. It sounds abit weird but I'm going to get a tortoise in 2 and half years time, once my university is finished, enough money - between £500-£600 and enough space - extension to my house is being built next year. So for this reason I'm trying to find the best indoor possible home. So i'm unsure what to do... any help?

[FreakOonique]

It is best for you to make the decision, as there will always be people who prefer one to the other, and it would be more difficult for you to decide what could work better for you

Vivariums and tortoise tables both have advantages and disadvantages, you just need to weight them up and make a decision yourself

With a viv its good from the point of view for keeping the temperatures up, especially if you have a cold house, but it can be difficult to create a good temperature gradient between the hot and cool end. Also ventilation is important in viv's. With a glass front you may find that the tortoise could get stressed at his, but then again it might not. Tables are great for temperature gradients, but some people struggle to heat them. Also with tables ventilation isnt an issue, so there is always fresh air.

It all comes down to research and getting it all set up correctly

Good luck

[Tortoise Trust]

Originally Posted by v-max

A vivarium and a terrarium are essentially the same thing. An enclosed living space. Terraria origins are from plant enclosures, many green fingered types, over the years have used them for plant cultivation. A few years ago they became popular to also house reptiles - the natural plants were ideal for them. This side of the hobby isnt that commonplace in the UK, but elsewhere in the world, especially on the continent reptile keepers have beautifully planted terraria with lizards, frogs and the like - all living in a little microclimate.

Being a stickler for accuracy, this is not quite true, either etymologically or historically.

There is quite a good Wikipedia article on this.

The employment of quite advanced vivarium systems goes back a very long way. They were in use in Victorian times, for example, and there is some evidence that even ancient cultures were interested in the subject.

I see Kevin appears to be suggesting that we have in some way changed our opinion of these units. Absolutely not so.

What I have tried to do is refine EXACTLY what the problems are.

Now, it is a vivarium (or terrarium) even if you use a 2,000 square foot glasshouse or polytunnel. I have personally used these with great success. I have used them with arid habitat species, and with tropical species.

I have kept tropical houses so large you could regularly harvest edible bananas in them - in the UK.

Yep. That's a vivarium. Redfoot tortoises wandering around below. Bananas growing overhead. My arid habitat terrarium was 20 feet wide and 60 feet long.

The problem is, that is not how most people think of it. What they think of is a 24-36" X 15 fish tank, or enclosed wooden unit of similar size.

To try to make this absolutely clear, we have updated some wording to refer to "small enclosed vivaria", because that is where the problems really begin. You will have very few problems in a 20 X 60 foot terrarium (apart from the cost). If you try to keep tortoises in a 24" fish tank, though, in my opinion, that is not only inhumane but unsuitable from just about every important environmental parameter.

I know people who keep reptiles in entire converted rooms. Those are vivariums too. It is not vivaria or terraria as such that are the problem, but the size of units so often sold as suitable.

I really hope this clarifies the situation. Put simply, nice big vivaria or terraria are not a problem for most small to medium sized tortoises, provided they also have some outdoor space. Little fish tanks or wooden cages are a problem, especially when sold as a "complete" or permanent solution. With enclosed units, I like to see as much floor area as possible and excellent ventilation. Both of these will greatly reduce the problems so common in smaller "fish tank" type systems.

Andy Highfield
www.tortoisetrust.org

[v-max]

Originally Posted by Tortoise Trust

Being a stickler for accuracy, this is not quite true, either etymologically or historically.

There is quite a good Wikipedia article on this.

The employment of quite advanced vivarium systems goes back a very long way. They were in use in Victorian times, for example, and there is some evidence that even ancient cultures were interested in the subject.

I see Kevin appears to be suggesting that we have in some way changed our opinion of these units. Absolutely not so.

What I have tried to do is refine EXACTLY what the problems are.

Now, it is a vivarium (or terrarium) even if you use a 2,000 square foot glasshouse or polytunnel. I have personally used these with great success. I have used them with arid habitat species, and with tropical species.

I have kept tropical houses so large you could regularly harvest edible bananas in them - in the UK.

Yep. That's a vivarium. Redfoot tortoises wandering around below. Bananas growing overhead. My arid habitat terrarium was 20 feet wide and 60 feet long.

The problem is, that is not how most people think of it. What they think of is a 24-36" X 15 fish tank, or enclosed wooden unit of similar size.

To try to make this absolutely clear, we have updated some wording to refer to "small enclosed vivaria", because that is where the problems really begin. You will have very few problems in a 20 X 60 foot terrarium (apart from the cost). If you try to keep tortoises in a 24" fish tank, though, in my opinion, that is not only inhumane but unsuitable from just about every important environmental parameter.

I know people who keep reptiles in entire converted rooms. Those are vivariums too. It is not vivaria or terraria as such that are the problem, but the size of units so often sold as suitable.

I really hope this clarifies the situation. Put simply, nice big vivaria or terraria are not a problem for most small to medium sized tortoises, provided they also have some outdoor space. Little fish tanks or wooden cages are a problem, especially when sold as a "complete" or permanent solution. With enclosed units, I like to see as much floor area as possible and excellent ventilation. Both of these will greatly reduce the problems so common in smaller "fish tank" type systems.

Andy Highfield
www.tortoisetrust.org

Some really good news in this reply. Very constructive. I sincerely hope this is the first foot forward in a direction we need to go down - for the good of tortoise welfare and the future of the hobby.

[FreakOonique]

I think the pair of you need to knock it on the head and hug