Say hi to Flash

[LordSoth]

Hi Peeps,

here is Flash, our first tortoise, & he's a Hermanns!



He is a very lively chappy & seems full of character.

Here are a few more pics of him ...


... and here is a picture of the table I constructed from feedback on this forum & a breakdown of the source & costs.


Box - IKEA - £9.39
Lamp Stand - IKEA - £6.84
Pot - IKEA - £2.46
Water Bowl - IKEA - £0.86
Top Soil - B&Q - £3.48
Lamp Reflector - eBay - £21.30
Mercury Vapour Bulb 160W - eBay - £28.98
Cuttlefish Shell - £0.33
Digital In/Out Thermometer - eBay - £12.45
Nutrabol - £6.29

Total cost - £122.38

The light is on a timer I got from Tesco's ages ago that cost 78p & is at present on a 12 hour on, 12 hour off cycle. Opinions?

I have a couple (more!!!) questions please.

The diet we were recommended by the seller is as follows:
Mange Touts, Sugar Snap Peas, Fine Beans, Peppers (not chilli), Curly Keel/Pamfry/Spring/Sweetheart Cabbage, Watercress

Is this OK? Are we missing anything essential? How much should we feed at any one time?

He seems to be picking up quite a lot of soil as he explores his new home. Is this OK & how often should we be bathing him?

He is trailing quite a lot of soil into his water bowl making it very muddy. Is this OK & how often should we be cleaning this bowl?

The seller recommended a pinch of Nutrabol over his food & then spraying the food lightly with water (for some reason to do with the taste of the Nutrabol putting the tortoise off from eating the food?) Is this correct?

Also, I'm a little unclear as to how the food should be presented.
I've read about spreading it around his table to encourage exercise as he moves around to forage & eat it but this seems to make the food quite muddy. And then I've read about putting the food on a slate, I presume to avoid the contamination, but then this doesn't encourage the exercise component of the previous recommendation. Opinions?

And I think that is it (for now!!!!)

As ever, many thanks in anticipation.

Soth

[meljaneuk]

Flash looks adorable I have Henrys lights on a timer 12 on and 12 off it seems to be working fine for him. Dont worry about the soil they love nothing more than to get muddy up. I rinse Henrys weeds and put them on his slate and then use a pepper pot to dust them and he always eats the lot. I also scatter a few leaves around his table so he has to go hunting if he wants more.

[meljaneuk]

Sorry just seen what you were feeding him, Im really not sure on most of that as I only feed henry weeds topped up with florret mix watercress and wild rocket. Im sure someone will be along soon and will be able to let you know if the food you are feeding is ok.

Congrates he is a beaut

[wizzasmum]

Box - IKEA - £9.39
Lamp Stand - IKEA - £6.84
Pot - IKEA - £2.46
Water Bowl - IKEA - £0.86
Top Soil - B&Q - £3.48
Lamp Reflector - eBay - £21.30
Mercury Vapour Bulb 160W - eBay - £28.98
Cuttlefish Shell - £0.33
Digital In/Out Thermometer - eBay - £12.45
Nutrabol - £6.29

Total cost - £122.38
So, after all that you changed your mind about species - did not need such a deep box then (ducks). Nice little tortoise, is it a Slovenian one?

The light is on a timer I got from Tesco's ages ago that cost 78p & is at present on a 12 hour on, 12 hour off cycle. Opinions?

I would do less daylight hours than night over winter - try to simulate daylight hours.



The diet we were recommended by the seller is as follows:
Mange Touts, Sugar Snap Peas, Fine Beans, Peppers (not chilli), Curly Keel/Pamfry/Spring/Sweetheart Cabbage, Watercress

No, that is a dreadful diet and will soon result in shell and other problems. Far too much protein there in the beans and peas and best to avoid all members of the brassica/cabbage family. I'm sure you had advice before on feeding which would not have incuded anything on here. www.tortsmad.com/diet.htm

Is this OK? Are we missing anything essential? How much should we feed at any one time?
Correct feeding amount is shown in how much he grows. A set of digital scales is essential for this. At this size aim for a couple of grams a month. A lot more than this will cause deformities farily quickly.

He seems to be picking up quite a lot of soil as he explores his new home. Is this OK & how often should we be bathing him?

Bathe daily, he will stop the soil eating as he gets used to his enclosure.

He is trailing quite a lot of soil into his water bowl making it very muddy. Is this OK & how often should we be cleaning this bowl?
I bathe my babies separately daily.

The seller recommended a pinch of Nutrabol over his food & then spraying the food lightly with water (for some reason to do with the taste of the Nutrabol putting the tortoise off from eating the food?) Is this correct?

The 'nutrobal' advice is correct, but not a full pinch for one hatchling, it is 1 pinch per kilo. The only reason for spraying would be to make the powder stick so spray first - it does not alter the smell and if there IS a smell it has gone off - check the sell by date.

Also, I'm a little unclear as to how the food should be presented.
I've read about spreading it around his table to encourage exercise as he moves around to forage & eat it but this seems to make the food quite muddy.

Use slate etc to feed from then - muddy soil is not a good substrate.
And then I've read about putting the food on a slate, I presume to avoid the contamination, but then this doesn't encourage the exercise component of the previous recommendation. Opinions?

Have several slate, rocky, climbing areas to spread the food around.
And I think that is it (for now!!!!)

[Tina]

Oh Flash is gorgeous (Hermanns are my fav!).

I feed mine on slate and have a few pieces of it around the enclosure. Sue has given you a very good link for diet, here's another one...

Diet and healthy growth

Steer clear of the foods you mentioned in your post, try and stick to the ones in the edible plant lists. There's also a sticky at the top of this section with pictures of edible plants. During winter you can add small amounts of supermarket stuff if you need to bulk up the amount of weeds... chicory, watercress and the Florette bags of mixed leaves are suitable. You can also grow pansies, echevera, aloe vera and roses indoors over winter to feed them with. There are plenty of weed seeds for sale in classifieds on here too.

I think the advice to spray with water is good as it will make sure Flash takes in more water while he's eating... you can just rinse them under the tap though. I put my nutrobal in a small pepper pot... this helps to scatter it evenly and not too thickly.

With a little wee one like Flash you should be able to find enough weeds for him... even in this cold snap. If you go weed picking once a week they'll last in your fridge for the next week... wrap them in damp paper towel then in a plastic bag.

Bath him every day (lukewarm water up to a depth of the bottom of his shell for about 20 minutes - an old washing up bowl is good for a bath)... he'll most likely pass urates (white, toothpastey consistency if hydrated gritty if not - they should be toothpastey) and poo in there. Bathing them does encourage them to eat as well.

Wash out the water bowl every day and replenish with fresh water.

Great set up and great price!

Very best wishes with Flash... he looks a smasher.


**Edit** Forgot to say... if you buy any plants now from garden centres they will most likely have been treated with pesticides so rinse off the old soil, repot and wait for new growth before you feed them to Flash.

[LordSoth]

Originally Posted by wizzasmum

So, after all that you changed your mind about species - did not need such a deep box then (ducks). Nice little tortoise, is it a Slovenian one?

Hmmm - there's a bit a a tale about that! The store had only one Horsfield tort left & it just looked - well - dead!!! I queried if it should be like that & he took it away to bathe it. He came back 5 mins later & said he wouldn't be happy to sell it to us as it was a lot more inactive than he felt it should be. So we were then left with the possibility of a very disappointed boy or consider another species - so it was nearly an impulse buy but we chose the most active Hermanns we could see from a selection of about 10 or so that he had for sale.

The diet we were recommended by the seller is as follows:
Mange Touts, Sugar Snap Peas, Fine Beans, Peppers (not chilli), Curly Keel/Pamfry/Spring/Sweetheart Cabbage, Watercress

No, that is a dreadful diet and will soon result in shell and other problems. Far too much protein there in the beans and peas and best to avoid all members of the brassica/cabbage family. I'm sure you had advice before on feeding which would not have incuded anything on here. www.tortsmad.com/diet.htm

Now I have a bit of a dilemma - what do I feed him now? Our garden is covered with snow & buying seeds, sowing them & reaping them later in the season is a medium term solution! And I thought that if I continued to feed him what he was used to eating that that would suffice, hence me not actually asking about diet in any of my previous posts!

Is this OK? Are we missing anything essential? How much should we feed at any one time?
Correct feeding amount is shown in how much he grows. A set of digital scales is essential for this. At this size aim for a couple of grams a month. A lot more than this will cause deformities farily quickly.

Is a couple of grams 5g-ish or 10g-ish?

I'm sure my noobish questions will soon exhaust themselves but, in the meantime, thank you! Thank you! Thank you! for all your good advice!

Soth

[wizzasmum]

Hang on, what happened to the guy who was asking all the right questions, appeared to be taking note and now appears not to have read any of the info given previously?

Hmmm - there's a bit a a tale about that! The store had only one Horsfield tort left & it just looked - well - dead!!! I queried if it should be like that & he took it away to bathe it. He came back 5 mins later & said he wouldn't be happy to sell it to us as it was a lot more inactive than he felt it should be. So we were then left with the possibility of a very disappointed boy or consider another species - so it was nearly an impulse buy but we chose the most active Hermanns we could see from a selection of about 10 or so that he had for sale.
Sorry, but did that not ring any alarm bells? You just bought a tortoise from a dealer selling imports who had one that appeared to be dead? Was the disappointed boy more important than a possibly very disappointed boy with dead tortoise? It is highly unlikely the dealer will have washed his hands between handling both these tortoises with tragic consequences

Now I have a bit of a dilemma - what do I feed him now?
You go to a supermarket ASA{ and get some floretti salad or at least some cos lettuce until you have done some more research. Please do not feed peas and beans whatever you do.

Is a couple of grams 5g-ish or 10g-ish?
No - it is a couple as in two.
I see you did not reply as to country of origin! Slovenian? Your breeder is not a breeeder at all but buys imported tortoise babies I would book a vet visit ASAP for parasites at the very least. Take a faecal sample with you.

[karibum]

Congratulations on Flash .... he is lovely!

I bought my two hermanns from a pet shop, so they are both Slovenian in origin. It will say Slovenia on your certificate under country of origin. The name and address printed on the certificate is the pet shop who sold it, as it is a legal requirement for selling.

My two had a light worm burden when I got them, so I would recommend you take a poo sample to a reputable vet to have it tested for worms and protazoa, so that they can be treated if necessary to prevent it becoming a problem.

You should still be able to find some dandelions, vetch, plantain and hawkbit at this time of year, I'm still managing despite the frost and snow!!!! You just need to go for long walksand look hard ..... moving the snow if need be!!!!!! You can then but florette crispy salad, watercress, wild rocket from the supermarket to pad it out. I also pick lots of grass to pad out the weeds, if you chop the grass up and spray it with water, it will stick to the weeds and then he will eat it.

It's a good idea to have a bowl of limestone powder in the enclosure for Flash to help himself, only one of mine ever does, but it's there if they want it.

As mentioned, make sure you bath him every day or stick least every other day, as centrally heated houses can be very dehydrating.

You say your bulb is 160w ...... keep a close eye on the temp directly under the lamp. My bulb is only 100w and it's a good 2ft above the basking spot to give temps of 30-32oC. Does the 160w allow a cool area of around 20-22oC??

Hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy your little guy!

[LordSoth]

Originally Posted by wizzasmum

Hang on, what happened to the guy who was asking all the right questions, appeared to be taking note and now appears not to have read any of the info given previously?

He just tried his very best with the options available to him.

Hmmm - there's a bit a a tale about that! The store had only one Horsfield tort left & it just looked - well - dead!!! I queried if it should be like that & he took it away to bathe it. He came back 5 mins later & said he wouldn't be happy to sell it to us as it was a lot more inactive than he felt it should be. So we were then left with the possibility of a very disappointed boy or consider another species - so it was nearly an impulse buy but we chose the most active Hermanns we could see from a selection of about 10 or so that he had for sale.
Sorry, but did that not ring any alarm bells? You just bought a tortoise from a dealer selling imports who had one that appeared to be dead? Was the disappointed boy more important than a possibly very disappointed boy with dead tortoise? It is highly unlikely the dealer will have washed his hands between handling both these tortoises with tragic consequences

Does the CITES documentation not guarantee that it was not an import & came from a breeder? I thought that's what I paid the extra for - peace of mind!

Now I have a bit of a dilemma - what do I feed him now?
You go to a supermarket ASA{ and get some floretti salad or at least some cos lettuce until you have done some more research. Please do not feed peas and beans whatever you do.

Will be there ASAP - ty

Is a couple of grams 5g-ish or 10g-ish?
No - it is a couple as in two.
I see you did not reply as to country of origin! Slovenian? Your breeder is not a breeeder at all but buys imported tortoise babies I would book a vet visit ASAP for parasites at the very least. Take a faecal sample with you.

Will any vet do?

Soth

[karibum]

There is great debate as to whether Slovenian torts are wild caught or captive farmed/bred. Do a search on the forum for 'Slovenian Farms' and you'll find some pictures and a great deal of debate and opinions on the subject, you can then make up your own mind as to what you think!

Any vet should be able to test the sample for you, but if it tests positive make sure he's treated by a specialist vet, or a non specialist at least consults with a specialist with regards to dosage etc as all vets stock panacur, which is what most common worms are treated with.