Help on vivarium

[oddball]

Hi all

I'm new to this site and have recently aquired a vivarium for my 18 month old horsefield tortoise i am wanting some advice on lighting i know i need a UVB light but unsure of what wattage and where to position it in the vivarium, Should it be on the roof or on the side wall?

I also have a 50watt sun glow bulb but it takes the temps to around 30 degrees and this is without UVB would i be ok with just the UVB of the right wattage as i am sure both on at the same time would take it well above what the tortoise can stand any help would be appreciated.

i have fully researched information on horsefield tortoises but a little unsure on what is best with the lighting locations.

Thanks in advance

Oddball

[annsimpson1]

is there any reason why you chose a viv rather than the reccomended tortoise table? although viv's can be used its harder to get the variation in temp from hot spot to cool simply because the viv is an enclosed space rather than open. You won't find many sites that do reccomend vivs so I'm interested in where you did your research, anyway the way to get the temps right in an open table is to raise/lower the heat bulb and the rest of the table is just room temp which is usually about right, apart from removing the viv doors/lid if possible there isn't really any other way of getting the right temps. If your viv has a glass front you might need to block off the bottom of the glass so the tort can't see out as some can get stressed by trying to get through any see through obstacle, a horsfeild also needs enough depth of soil to bury in as they are great diggers and will dig tunnels in the wild, to be honest if a shop suggested the viv I'd take it back and get a table as they've sold you something which isn't really suitable for what you want it for.

[purplepixie]

I agree with Ann about the viv, but if you have done research then it must be your choice.
Horsfields are great diggers and need a substrate of at least four to five inchs deep. They need a lot of space for wandering around, hence open topped enclosures tend to have more space.
If you are using a UV tube, it needs to be the highest UV tube you can get 10% and above. This needs to be approx six inchs from the tortoise to get maximum use of it. Heat sorce needs to be up one end, to allow (hopefully) a gradient of 25cish at the other end. Ventilation is very important too.
Basking temps for a horsfield should be approx 32-33c. They need heat and UV. Which is why in the long run UV lamps work out a lot cheaper as they can last up to two years, tubes run out of UV at around six months.
Which you should have found when researching.
www.thetortoisehouse.com for great horsfield info.

[oddball]

Originally Posted by annsimpson1

is there any reason why you chose a viv rather than the reccomended tortoise table? although viv's can be used its harder to get the variation in temp from hot spot to cool simply because the viv is an enclosed space rather than open. You won't find many sites that do reccomend vivs so I'm interested in where you did your research, anyway the way to get the temps right in an open table is to raise/lower the heat bulb and the rest of the table is just room temp which is usually about right, apart from removing the viv doors/lid if possible there isn't really any other way of getting the right temps. If your viv has a glass front you might need to block off the bottom of the glass so the tort can't see out as some can get stressed by trying to get through any see through obstacle, a horsfeild also needs enough depth of soil to bury in as they are great diggers and will dig tunnels in the wild, to be honest if a shop suggested the viv I'd take it back and get a table as they've sold you something which isn't really suitable for what you want it for.

It's only since being on here and reading that i have seen tabletops are mainly used but i have been told by breeders and Reptile shops around here that a vivarium is ok to be used as long as i can get the temperatures right.they also say vivariums aren't what they used to be years ago, and that it is an easier way of looking after the tortoise. But saying that when the tortoise is a liitle bit older we will probably be putting him into a tabletop enclosure for the duration of his years.

We have got the right temps in the viv of around 30-32 degrees under the basking lamp and 23-24 degrees in the cooler end of the viv and we have about 4-5 inches of substrate in the base for him to have a good dig about if he wants to i was just worried about the position of the UVB lamp and what impact it would have on the heat in the viv. As for the tort trying to get through the glass he is not really bothered by it it happily just walks around his tank. he is taken out to have a bath and a good exercise around everyday anyway. and we managed to get the temps running right by putting on a habistat and digital thermometer with probes under the basking lamp and in the coolest part of the viv.

thanks for your comments tho they have been taken on board for future reference when he is older.

[oddball]

Originally Posted by purplepixie

I agree with Ann about the viv, but if you have done research then it must be your choice.
Horsfields are great diggers and need a substrate of at least four to five inchs deep. They need a lot of space for wandering around, hence open topped enclosures tend to have more space.
If you are using a UV tube, it needs to be the highest UV tube you can get 10% and above. This needs to be approx six inchs from the tortoise to get maximum use of it. Heat sorce needs to be up one end, to allow (hopefully) a gradient of 25cish at the other end. Ventilation is very important too.
Basking temps for a horsfield should be approx 32-33c. They need heat and UV. Which is why in the long run UV lamps work out a lot cheaper as they can last up to two years, tubes run out of UV at around six months.
Which you should have found when researching.
www.thetortoisehouse.com for great horsfield info.

Thankyou for your info was just a little unsure as to where i needed to position UVB. Temps are set with a habistat now much appreciated

[stacey111]

Hi oddball.

You said your new on here so hi and welcome! I have only been on here a week myself, i also have a horsefield and was also advised to buy a viv, a lot of people on here advise not to put them in one but i really dont think they are as bad as you think, the main thing is getting the temp right, but like yourself i have mine as 30 - 32 under the basking area and 21-23 in the shaded area, so it is very easy to allow the tortoise to have a cool area.

I dont know about your viv but mine has a lot of air vents and this does make a difference on the temp.

You will get so much conflicting information as every one has different experiences with vivs tortoise tables and food etc, i think if your following the guide lines any little changes wont make to much of a difference, with a lot of things its trial and error, and how do we know the tortoises dont like certain things as they cant tell us!! if they are healthy and happy and your doing your best for them then i think you cant go wrong!

Good luck and im sure your little tortoise will be just fine.

stacey x

[purplepixie]

Tortoises can tell you they are unhappy, they hide away or dig down. They dont eat, they get lumpy. Get dehydrated and get bladder stones and dont eat.
So they do tell you, but not verbally. You have to watch, take notes and learn from them
I have used both vivs and open topped enclosures, and enclosures are far far better.
The reason petshops recommend vivs is because of the profits. Keepers who have other reptiles recommend vivs because thats what they know.
Good breeders will always recommend open topped enclosures.
But at the end of the day, its your choice, just dont come running if things go wrong

[stacey111]

I was just making a comment as many others are, if things were to go wrong i wouldnt be running on here id be running to a vet!!

But it is so gutting to find out that you have spent £100s of pounds on a set up that you were told by many that this is fine, to find out its not good. like anything there is good and bad in everything, my friend has given her tortoise lettuce all its life and it is very healthy and all most 30 years old!! (just an example) but many say this is bad!!! (i dont give mine this but just an example!)

Money is an issue for a lot of people and like oddball i too were advised to buy a viv, so we cant just go and buy something different, it would have been a lot cheeper to build a tortoise table, but now we have them and spent a lot of money getting it right for the tortoise.

From looking at a lot of the posts on here the main concern for a viv is getting the temp right, and i really do feel that the newer vis cater for this and i dont know about oddball but i spent £100's on my viv alone. and i know that my viv is at the same temp as a tortoise table!!

I also will be buying a tort table in a year or so but at the mo money is tight and what i have is fine.

[purplepixie]

At the end of the day, in depth research is vital with any animal you buy, as it is so easy to spend a lot of money you dont have too.
If someone asks before they buy on most tortoise forums they get the same sort of replies about vivs

[oddball]

Originally Posted by purplepixie

At the end of the day, in depth research is vital with any animal you buy, as it is so easy to spend a lot of money you dont have too.
If someone asks before they buy on most tortoise forums they get the same sort of replies about vivs

some people don't think about looking at internet forums first they go into these so called reptile pet shops and ask for advise about what they want and what things to get for them and if this type of advice they give is wrong wouldn't they have thier pet shop licences taken off them for repeatedly giving bad advice leading to sick animals. I appreciate pet shops are there to try and make money for themselves but they should be made accountable if they give bad advise and should be out of business if they do.
I am partially annoyed that i may have had bad advise from breeders and reptile shops but then again who do you beleive being on here or the people you have spoken to face to face i am sure stacey is as the same opinion as me as most information acroos the internet conflicts with each other.