Hobby breeder or small business? - Reptile Forums

Go Back   Reptile Forums > Help and Chat > Snakes


  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 07:35 PM
Super Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 298
Default Hobby breeder or small business?

In the eyes of the tax man when would a hobbiest breeder become a small business?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 07:51 PM
Gold Star Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Slough
Posts: 6,831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whosthedaddy2 View Post
In the eyes of the tax man when would a hobbiest breeder become a small business?
The only way you will get a correct answer will be to ask the tax man.
Inventor and dcap like this.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 08:00 PM
Super Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
The only way you will get a correct answer will be to ask the tax man.
Fair do.

Just thinking other day about whether the earnings from sales ever puts a hobbiest at risk of being on the wrong side of the tax people as considered a second income?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 08:03 PM
colinm's Avatar
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,382
Default

It's far more complex than just monitor your gain. There are as far as I remember eleven different points to define a hobbyist from a commercial breeder. These include number of animals produced, value, intent to produce a profit and others.
Inventor likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 11:32 PM
Premier Citizen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stevenage, UK
Posts: 3,072
Default

Depends on whether it's run as a business or hobby. A business can claim back all the expenses in maintaining the collection (or stock). If you are simply selling the off-spring of your breeding projects then it's still a hobby. But having said that, the taxman really wants everyone to declare all income, so if you make a few grand selling shed loads of snakes, technically you might need to declare it on your next tax return.

Bit of a grey area, and a tax office might be your better place to direct your enquiry.
__________________
Using ceramics or light bulbs to heat your viv ?
Install it - guard it - then stat it !
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 17-02-2017, 11:42 PM
Premier Citizen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stevenage, UK
Posts: 3,072
Default

Seems that from April 2017 you are allowed to receive up to £1000 before you need to declare your operation as a part-time business

From last years budget

Quote:
To help make the tax position more certain and simple for these individuals, from April 2017 the Budget introduces two new £1,000 allowances for property and trading income. Individuals with property income or trading income below the level of allowance will no longer need to declare or pay tax on that income. Those with relevant incomes above £1,000 can benefit by simply deducting the allowance instead of calculating their exact expenses.
So I guess that if you breed and sell less than £1000 worth of snakes you are technically classed as a hobby, if over then you would / should declare a part time business and deduct a grand from your tax liability
ian14 likes this.
__________________
Using ceramics or light bulbs to heat your viv ?
Install it - guard it - then stat it !
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18-02-2017, 06:52 AM
Super Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 298
Default

Threshold is pretty low then at a grand.

Thanks for the info, BTW just a hypothetical musing rather than an actual problem.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 18-02-2017, 11:28 PM
Gold Star Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Slough
Posts: 6,831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colinm View Post
It's far more complex than just monitor your gain. There are as far as I remember eleven different points to define a hobbyist from a commercial breeder. These include number of animals produced, value, intent to produce a profit and others.
Sounds all well and good, but where has this come from? I can't imagine for one minute that there is such a scale specifically for animal breeders on the relevant site for UK taxes.
My understanding is that anyone carrying out an activity that makes a profit is subject to tax.
I would be very happy to be shown otherwise by way of links to relevant UK government documents.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2017, 01:01 AM
grahamhypher's Avatar
Squashed Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 167
Default

The best thing to do is keep simple books, keep all receipts for EVERYTHING! Food substrate etc etc. Give invoices with anything you sell. List everything like vivs, tongs etc give it a rough value. You can claim the space in your house back in tax also. So, just do simple plus and minus books and next April look at what it comes to. Let's say you have a profit of £2000. You would be liable to pay about £200 in tax, minus the allowance for the house space. Also assuming you're on the lowest tax band. On the down side, you're £200 down. On the up side, it adds to your gross earnings if you want a mortgage or loan for example, and will add to your pension. If you make a loss, reverse the pros and cons above, except you'll get a wee rebate. It's up to you, I wouldn't stress too much about "getting caught" unless it's your main income, or you're making significant income, if you've got books you can always pay any back tax. And finally to answer your question, the tax man are friendly when it comes to answering these questions, they have always been very supportive when I've had to deal with them as a self employed twit that always makes an arse of his book etc. But if you keep books and as soon as you're making more than £1000 profit a year, you're liable to pay tax and therefore I assume that would be the threshold where it becomes a business. Hope this helps.

Last edited by Stephen P; 19-02-2017 at 08:06 AM.. Reason: Language
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2017, 09:08 AM
colinm's Avatar
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
Sounds all well and good, but where has this come from? I can't imagine for one minute that there is such a scale specifically for animal breeders on the relevant site for UK taxes.
My understanding is that anyone carrying out an activity that makes a profit is subject to tax.
I would be very happy to be shown otherwise by way of links to relevant UK government documents.
I will put the information up when I am at a pc rather than a tablet.

Paying tax and running a business are two completely different things. There are plenty of businesses in different sectors that are clearly businesses and don't make a profit, and therefore don't pay tax.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small business start up Mattywyce General Herp Chat 0 28-01-2017 05:01 PM
Beginner small mammals? Mick101 Exotic Mammals 1 06-12-2016 03:36 PM
Looking to get back into the hobby! Looking for Royal advice! =D Lureche Newbie Advice 3 30-11-2016 06:53 PM
dry /arid environment small lizards carter2011 Lizards 8 17-06-2016 12:39 PM
2.4% UVB Small viv/crepuscular species lighting kit. Arcadiajohn Arcadia 0 27-05-2016 09:46 AM


Help For Heros

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:57 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2005 - 2011, Reptile Forums (RFUK™)