Do i REALLY need a thermostat?

[alinoee]

this topic will never die .
i know that i'm gonna get bitten again but this is what want to say.
use thermostat but remember that it will not sort all your problems nor the the air bag in the car will . if you afraid that your heat matte will go on fire now you got 2 devices now that are potentially source of fire . if the matte will multifunction in different area than stat's probe is - it will not help - it might or might not make it worst but will not help.get stat but my advice is dont get used one thou. and dont insult people who don't or do use one.

[Morgoth]

My peronal experience after the last 8 years...

If I have a 4foot, by 2 foot tall, by 2 foot wide viv, for example.

I put a 2foot heatmat at one end, under the substrate, then I have a 60watt reflector basking bulb attached to the roof, aimed downwards onto a rock pile (also the same end as the viv).

The temperature after about an hour of both mat and bulb being on will reach around 100f directly under the basking bulb (around 10-14" away from the rockpile). This temperature DOES NOT keep on increasing. Its to do with how much heat a 60 watt bulb can omit, and how fast that heat dissapates. Once your experienced you'll know roughly how much heat a typical wattage bulb will omit, and how fast it disappates, depending on viv size and ventilation etc.

The cool end of the viv will be roughly 83-85f. This likewise will not increase.

External factors are also important in maintaining a stable temperature. If you have your viv in your living room, or bedroom, or dining room, then it will be relatively stable all year round, with the height of a hot summer being the only possible exception.

Under these circumstances a thermostat is not essensial. The combined heatmat/basking bulb cannot keep increasing the temp, and within usually 30-45min it will reach the temp cap.

Turning the bulb off at night and just keeping the mat on will maintain a temperature of around 82f, in a standard house with central heating on a timer etc.

Note: this setup would be too warm for a corn snake, but ideal for some desert species such as a Bosc monitor. If you decrease the bulb wattage to 40watt, the temperatures should be around the corn snake mark, in this setup. At a guess the basking point will be around 90f. If you increase to a 100watt you would probably see the basking point go over 110f.

However if you keep your viv in place where external temperatures play a much more substantial role in the internal viv temp, then thermostats are useful in keeping the temp at a set amount.

For those people who have always had a thermostat with every heating appliance it may be difficult at first to know what wattage will cap at what temperature, but trial and error will eventually see you through.
Hand-held thermometers with a probe are useful in this regard.

Far more important than a thermostat is a temperature gradient - let the snake decide if he needs heating up or cooling down.

[Ssthisto]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

My peronal experience after the last 8 years...

If I have a 4foot, by 2 foot tall, by 2 foot wide viv, for example.

I put a 2foot heatmat at one end, under the substrate ...
Under these circumstances a thermostat is not essensial.

How do you control the surface temperature of the heat mat, most of which (and especially the size/wattage you mention) will get to 140 degrees or higher?

In the setup you describe I would completely eliminate the heat mat - it is superfluous if you are using a bulb.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

How do you control the surface temperature of the heat mat, most of which (and especially the size/wattage you mention) will get to 140 degrees or higher?

In the setup you describe I would completely eliminate the heat mat - it is superfluous if you are using a bulb.

The heatmat you can put under some newspaper (tape it down if needed) with some chippings on top (I've never had any problems with gut impaction). You can then barely feel any direct heat, but as heat rises it must come through somehow.

I also recommend putting some tinfoil under the heatmat itself, to provide maximum deflection up into the viv.

Heatmats, by and large, provide quite a gentle heat, even with just newspaper to mellow down the initial surfact heat.

You could just use a bulb in the day, sure. I would recommend putting it on at night though, unless your using a red bulb, in which case make sure the reptile is getting a proper photoperiod....

[Ssthisto]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

Heatmats, by and large, provide quite a gentle heat, even with just newspaper to mellow down the initial surfact heat.

I don't know if I'd describe 140 degrees fahrenheit applied directly to a snake's belly (given that snakes do burrow under substrates) as a "gentle" heat personally.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

I don't know if I'd describe 140 degrees fahrenheit applied directly to a snake's belly (given that snakes do burrow under substrates) as a "gentle" heat personally.

If you measured the temperture straight onto the surface on the heatmat no wonder you got that result.

I don't measure the temp of my basking spot by putting the probe onto the glass of the basking bulb.

Snakes can burrow under substrate, yes, but they can't burrow under newspaper if its taped down to the floor of the viv above the heatmat.

Heat mats provide a gentle 'ambient' temperature, e.g not directly onto the source of heat.

[Ssthisto]

Ok, ok, fair enough, when I measured the 140-degree 7-watt heat mat I was measuring the surface of the mat.

The surface of the wood chippings inside the faunarium on top of the mat was 135 degrees, not 140.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Ok, ok, fair enough, when I measured the 140-degree 7-watt heat mat I was measuring the surface of the mat.

The surface of the wood chippings inside the faunarium on top of the mat was 135 degrees, not 140.

If your truthful, then thats a terrible heatmat.

Heatmat at bottom of viv, newspaper taped over it to the floor, 1"-1.5" layer of chippings on top - 95f direct heat maximum, it will greatly decrease a further 2" higher again.

They simply don't have the wattage to generate 135/140f indirectly, even an inch away from the surface. They simply are not designed for it.

[sasandjo]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

If your truthful, then thats a terrible heatmat.

Heatmat at bottom of viv, newspaper taped over it to the floor, 1"-1.5" layer of chippings on top - 95f direct heat maximum, it will greatly decrease a further 2" higher again.

They simply don't have the wattage to generate 135/140f indirectly, even an inch away from the surface. They simply are not designed for it.

can i ask what happens if a snake digs/pushes the chippings aside with out u noticing surely its now in contact with the direct heat from the mat as a layer of papers not going to stop it..

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by sasandjo

can i ask what happens if a snake digs/pushes the chippings aside with out u noticing surely its now in contact with the direct heat from the mat as a layer of papers not going to stop it..

I've just measured the temp in my boa viv, they have a 4' heat mat on the floor with a few layers of newspaper taped over it. It was 94f direct, 2 inches high it was 84f. And thats with a big heatmat, let alone the little ones.