Do i REALLY need a thermostat?

[Morgoth]

1. No all appliances are unplugged and left off for a full luna cycle before I test the temperatures in my vivs....

2. The manual clearly says that in many applications you do not NEED a stat with a mat. Twist it into whatever scenario you like, thats what it says.

3. Not absolutely essential. I have a 40 watt red bulb in the higher gtp cage with a 1' by 1' heat mat at the very bottom (as heat rises). I have the same in my lower viv, only its a 60watt bulb as the cage is slightly cooler being lower down.

Temps are 91f basking spot, 84f near the top branches (not under the basking spot) and about 80f lower viv. These temperatures I spent a week calibrating (a procedure which would have gone much quicker with a stat, I agree), but now they are spot on and will not drop or increase when they feel like it.

These temps were in accordance to Tom Mazorlig's recommenedation in the book called 'Tree Boas and Tree Pythons.

[ch4ncy]

when i first started rep keeping (15 years ago) i never used thermostats because they were not readily available to me - neither were heat mats or ceramics for that matter, so it was light bulbs fitted to dimmer switches and thermometers in tanks. But the minute they were available I got them as an extra precaution, and I advise anyone keeping snakes to get the appropriate thermostat for their heating system.

Things fail and if you care about your animals in any way you would provide them with every tool available to you for their safe keeping and husbandry.

[Meko]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

2. The manual clearly says that in many applications you do not NEED a stat with a mat. Twist it into whatever scenario you like, thats what it says.

that is correct but can you tell us what the many applications are and if using as a heat source at the bottom of a viv covered with newspaper, is one of them?

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Meko

that is correct but can you tell us what the many applications are and if using as a heat source at the bottom of a viv covered with newspaper, is one of them?

I think by many applications they are refering to places where the external temperature doesn't have too much influence on the internal temperature.
If you have a viv somewhere where the temp can rise from 70f household heat, to 85f heat (for example near a window when the sun is coming on in warmer weather) then a stat would be recommended.

[joeyboy]

Originally Posted by Meko

that is correct but can you tell us what the many applications are and if using as a heat source at the bottom of a viv covered with newspaper, is one of them?

also lol companies are not always truthful take calci-sand " specially designed for reptiles" really good for them....yeah....sure.

[Meko]

Originally Posted by joeyboy

also lol companies are not always truthful take calci-sand " specially designed for reptiles" really good for them....yeah....sure.

to give them credit, they do say 'designed for' and not 'really good for', but if you read t-rex's care sheets they don't mention using calci sand.

[Ssthisto]

I am doing an experiment. It's in progress now, so I won't post the videos and so forth just yet.

First, we used my TN1 infrared thermometer to measure the temperatures of several pretty commonplace household items -

First, I videoed taking measurements of things in the refrigerator. The fridge was reading a pretty consistent 40-45 degrees fahrenheit with one exception - it falsely read 70 degrees fahrenheit when I tried to read the temperature of some foil covering a tin of cat food. Objects with high reflectance like foil obviously read higher or incorrectly - note I'm disclosing this because I did say I'd try the "cooking an egg" experiment and asked if I could use foil on top of the heat mat. That won't work because it would give incorrectly high temperature readings. I'll have to find something with lower reflectance for the thermometer to get a reading on.

The icebox in the refrigerator read a consistent 18 degrees fahrenheit.

Objects in my pantry (a tin of baked beans and a tin of soup) read arount 65 degrees fahrenheit.

My kitchen has low-energy bulbs in it; these read at about 88 degrees fahrenheit when I measured them five minutes or so after turning them on.

I also thought I'd do some spot-checks of my blue-tongued skink's viv. On the warm side in the basking area at ground level the temperature was also around 88 degrees. Move up an inch or so towards the (thermostatically controlled) ceramic, and it goes up to 110 at the highest basking point. Loki was not overly thrilled at having his temperature taken (around 82 degrees - he was in his hide). The ceramic itself, measured through the mesh cage (and the thermometer is less accurate the further from it you get) was 145 degrees fahrenheit.

We plugged in a 7-watt Habistat heat mat and measured it five minutes after plugging in. At that point the uncovered mat surface temperature was 85 degrees.

Then we very carefully put a piece of foil shiny-side up under it (as Morgoth has stated he does in order to reflect the mild heat of these mats upward) and folded the front/back page of the Metro in half then half again to make four thicknesses of newspaper. We then taped that down.

At the five-minute mark, the surface of the newspaper measured 85 degrees (this was from "room temperature" previously).

At the ten-minute mark, the newspaper measured 91 degrees.

At the fifteen-minute mark, the newspaper measured 96 degrees.

At the 20-minute mark - just now - the surface of the paper measured 103 degrees.

[Ssthisto]

Now I've got a couple of spots on the mat reading 105 - interestingly the mat is not consistent across the entire thing. But if this is all the snake has to choose as a warm spot - and many, many MANY newbie keepers use only ONE heat source, not multiples - it's hot enough to brain damage the snake and cause all sorts of entertaining spinning and rolling behaviours.

[Lynne]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

I've also bought Microclimate heatmats, and one thing I didn't like about them, apart from a rediculously short lead, was the manual saying a thermostat is essential for something as weak as a heat mat.

i thought you said they didnt advise folk to use stats????

[sparkle]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

I think by many applications they are refering to places where the external temperature doesn't have too much influence on the internal temperature.
If you have a viv somewhere where the temp can rise from 70f household heat, to 85f heat (for example near a window when the sun is coming on in warmer weather) then a stat would be recommended.

u are now recomending a stat SOMETIMES
how very interesting..